Treasure in adventure paths

We assume as a baseline that your characters in the ZEITGEIST adventure path will work for the Royal Homeland Constabulary, a Risuri organization created by King Aodhan to monitor threats to his nation, both home-grown and from foreign lands.

Today, I wanted to present an excerpt on how we'll be handling treasure. Please, let us know your thoughts.


Treasure, Salary, and Requisitions
As constables of Risur, your characters have a slightly different relationship with treasure than typical Dungeons & Dragons adventurers.

In heroic tier you receive a combination of salary and official stipend to fulfill your duties, and the Constabulary’s resources and connections let you easily purchase or requisition the tools you need for your missions. Likewise, you can easily trade in items you no longer need, which can be used by other constables or local police. When you recover rare magic, treasure, or other valuables, you are expected to hand it over to higher authorities, who will make proper use of it. If desired, you can use your salary or stipend to acquire these items for yourself, assuming you file the proper paperwork and your request is deemed warranted.

In paragon tier, your actual salary becomes relatively inconsequential compared to the contacts and allies available in most major cities, who can help you procure whatever you need. You will be entrusted with great wealth, and given leeway to retain and exploit items you recover in your missions. If deemed worthy, you might even be granted access to precious relics held in the Risuri royal vaults.

In epic tier you will have at your disposal the wealth of entire cities or nations, to buy things any sane person would consider priceless: weapons forged from the essence of whole demi-planes, rituals that harness the collective will of a thousand state mages, long-forgotten artifacts unearthed by the concerted efforts of an entire nation’s adventurers, all toiling to aid you, their god-like champions. Of course as the campaign begins, affairs of this grandeur are nigh-unthinkable, for no mortal has gained such power in a thousand years or more.


Working for a Living
Each adventure in heroic tier will include guidelines for the DM to provide money to you and your fellow PCs at regular intervals, usually once per level. You can use this money to equip your character, though getting uncommon and rare items is not guaranteed.

Whenever you’re in a suitable place to shop, you can buy common items without restriction. Uncommon and rare items cost their normal amount, but whether you can get them and how long it takes depends on your Prestige. (See “Prestige,” page xx.) This abstraction represents what would realistically be a complex system of salary, stipend, and very large quantities of paperwork.


Upgrades, Loot, and Skimming Off the Top
You can turn in any functioning item to the RHC for its full value. This allows you to keep yourself equipped with the best material available, or at least the best that government bureaucracy thinks you can be trusted with.

Whenever the party acquires any sort of treasure in the course of a mission, you will be expected to hand it over to your superiors, which should keep you at the expected power for your level. If you recover something you want for yourself, you can spend money to requisition it, though that may take some time.

There is always some leeway, and constables are allowed to hold onto loot for a reasonable period of time. If you defeat a foe with a magic sword, and his weapon would aid you in your immediate investigation, you can hold onto it for a few days, but you’re expected to turn it in.

An alternative, of course, is to hold onto items and not report them to the RHC. This is illegal, and would likely be grounds for dismissal. Such pecuniary misdeeds are expected of common police, but the RHC is held to higher standards. If you attempt to sell such an item, you cannot take advantage of the RHC’s favorable rates, and must use the normal values (20% base cost for common items, 50% for uncommon, 100% for rare). Be careful, though, because prison is not kind to former law officers who turn to crime.


Exceptions and Variants
If you receive a gift, you can keep it, though the RHC might factor it into how much of a stipend they need to provide for your next mission.

If the DM prefers, you could alter the setting so that magic items are rarer. The PCs could use the inherent bonuses rule, and they would be provided a much smaller stipend (about one-fourth the suggested amount), which could be used to purchase expendable items and ritual components.

Finally, if the DM decides to run a campaign where you are not part of the RHC, or if the party decides to spontaneously become pirates out of frustration with the bureaucracy they have to deal with, you can use traditional treasure parcels. The adventures will provide suggestions for what the PCs find and where.
 

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OnlineDM

Adventurer
It's a lot to take in, but I think it works. My favorite part is the very end, where you state that the adventures will provide suggestions for what the PCs find. Picking treasure is the bane of my existence as a DM. I want to tailor it to the party, but I often forget about doing this in advance, and having some default options in front of me would help.

If I'm understanding the default option correctly, the idea is that treasure doesn't really matter. If a PC wants something, they ask for it. If they have enough Prestige, it will be granted to them. Is that correct?

If so, I think this will work out okay but certain groups might be a bit perturbed by it. After all, looting the bad guys for treasure is a long-time staple of the game, and this setting just lacks that, at least at heroic tier. Honestly, I find that refreshing, but some players might feel that they're not being rewarded for their deeds. Perhaps the idea that the RHC will give them cooler equipment as they gain Prestige will substitute for the joy of looting monster lairs.

Also, some DMs probably won't like the wish list aspect of this. I know that getting the right magic items is a part of character optimization, and if the expectation is that players will have access to whatever they want if they have enough Prestige, the DM might have a harder time saying, "No, you can't have Shadowdance Armor and thus remove the opportunity attack rules for your character." "But I've got the Prestige for a level 5 uncommon!" Naturally the DM can always say that such things don't exist in Risur, but it has the potential to create conflict.

In any case, I applaud the alternative approach to treasure - this should help to give ZEITGEIST a "world of its own" feel, which is a good thing in my book.
 

Colmarr

First Post
I like most of it.

I'm especially glad to see support for inherent bonuses, because I'd already decided to use them to save myself treasure-planning time. Who knows, maybe when the full treasure system is known I won't have to worry at all!

I'm not sure how i feel about the idea of prestige. If it's a good sub-system and comes complete with antagonistic RHC npcs (that OTHER group of constables), then I think it has the potential to add enormously to the feel of the setting. If it's just added paperwork, then I'd rather skip it.

I'm also not keen on the system revolving around rarity. By all accounts the rarity system is borked at the moment and hitching Zeitgeist treasure to that particular wagon might be a mistake. For groups that don't use rarity, you might need an alternative.
 

john112364

First Post
I like it. It's similar to the d20 modern version of how wealth was handled.(If I remember correctly. It's been a while.) I like the fact that it changes the focus to adventure, duty and heroics rather than simply accumulating gold and toys. Though there is still that element too, it seems more of a by product rather than necessity. I also want to see more of this "Prestige" .
I'm looking forward to this more and more.
 

JustKim

First Post
Our old 3.5 method of loot division simply does not work under the assumptions of 4E. It used to be we could split up everything sellable into equal shares, and buy back magic items out of the pool for their sale price. But now we don't each get a magic item per level, and the ones we do get can be 3 levels above us, and it just does not work elegantly. As of Essentials, the wonky math of it became completely unworkable. No clear and fair solution has presented itself.

This system not only seems to provide an elegant solution, it does so in a way that doesn't seem at all out of place. In fact I would say this adds something to the game. It'll take a bit of getting used to, but once we acclimate I think we'll prefer it.
 

Colmarr

First Post
I've thought about this some more and I'm not sure how the inherent bonuses version is meant to work.

The standard IB system is IIRC normal gp and 2 magic items (lvl+2 and lvl+3), for a total of 3 magic item equivalencies (MIE) per level. The excerpt seems to suggest that there'll be 1/4 gp but does say how many items.

I'm not sure how that's meant to add up to 3 MIE. Can you expand?
 

I've thought about this some more and I'm not sure how the inherent bonuses version is meant to work.

The standard IB system is IIRC normal gp and 2 magic items (lvl+2 and lvl+3), for a total of 3 magic item equivalencies (MIE) per level. The excerpt seems to suggest that there'll be 1/4 gp but does say how many items.

I'm not sure how that's meant to add up to 3 MIE. Can you expand?

Really? There was an official system for matching GP with inherent bonuses? I didn't remember it, so I just sat and thought up my own. The logic was, a PC who starts at level X gets three items, and money of value equal to an item of level (x-1). So I'll just give money of that value.

But I suppose logically that shorts the PC, because he's just getting free static bonuses, not free magic item properties and powers.

Do you have a cite for that 'magic item equivalency' rule? Thanks for mentioning that before we went to layout. ;)
 

Kvantum

First Post
Ryan, I find the idea interesting... just, as I usually am, wondering about how the ideas and concepts that sound like rather good ideas for a 4e campaign will translate into one for Pathfinder.
 

Colmarr

First Post
Do you have a cite for that 'magic item equivalency' rule? Thanks for mentioning that before we went to layout. ;)

MIE is my terminology and isn't referenced in the rules. Nevertheless, it's easy to see it in the system.

Normal party treasure per level (pre-essentials, which is probably showing my bias) is items of lvl+4, lvl+3, lvl+2 and lvl+1 and gp equivalent to two items of lvl+0. Four items and 2 item-equivalents in gp. Six MIEs.

The inherent bonuses system (DMG2, pg138 and DSCS) removes the lvl+1 and lvl+4 items, but leaves the gp and the other two items intact. Hence 4 MIEs (I incorrectly said 3 in the last post).

My concern is that if you award only 1/4 of normal gp without somehow adjusting elsewhere then the party is only getting 2.5 MIEs per level instead of 4. Which in turn causes balance problems because, as you noted, inherent bonuses don't make up for properties and item powers and also because the inherent bonuses are generally a level behind item enhancement bonuses (again, in dark sun anyway).
 
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Riastlin

First Post
A little late to the game I realize, but thought I would throw in my two cents as well. I think the idea should work well enough so long as the adventurers are given plenty of opportunities to go shopping during their careers (probably needs to be about once a level or so).

As a DM this really has some appeal for me as well because my players are not real big on giving me wish lists for the most part, but are also very much in favor or certain items over others (for instance, they would turn down most +3 armors if they already had a +2 Deathcut). This provides a nice happy medium. They get the funds to buy what they want, when they want. I do think it needs to be made clear to the players though that they would be receiving very little in actual magic gear from the adventures per se so that they know they won't be finding that shiny magic sword that they can use for the next 5 levels on some random bad guy. As long as they know they'll have to buy their gear, and as long as they get sufficient cash to do so, then there shouldn't be a problem.

Plus, the one thing I always found odd with magic items is that I would expect a creature that "drops" a magic sword to be using said sword and thus, said creature's stat block should probably be adjusting (to hit and dmg enhancement is probably already covered, but they should get the weapon power too, etc.).
 

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