Oracle--what am I missing?

[Is_907]

Hey all,
So I tried to run an Oracle tonight (Human, Flame mystery), at a Pathfinder Society event. We had a great time and I loved the RP elements of the class...
But in combat I was absolutely useless.

All the best spells I wanted to use are melee touch based and, well, having a STR mod of 0 and a BAB of 0... I was useless.

Am I playing the class wrong or did I build it wrong? Wrong spell choices?

Help me!

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

You probably built wrong, and what did you pick for curse and revelation? Those are hugely important, especially early on.

In general, you're not going to be very good in melee without the Battle mystery, IMO. Clerics are just better at that, they get a lot more raw power than oracles.

At the very least, don't melee with str 10. What were your stats? Was it rolled or point buy?

 

[Is_907]

It's Pathfinder Society so we did 20 point buy...
10, 14, 10, 12, 13, 18 I think.

I was hoping to be the divine spellcaster equivalent of a Sorceror... but there just don't seem to be many ranged spells. Lots of melee touch.

I picked Clouded Vision for my curse and for Revelation I did Touch of Flame and Cinder Dance (Extra Revelation feat.)
Touch of Flame was about the only one that gives you something to cast more than once a day, at least at level 1.

I really wanted him to be a ranged caster... maybe I should pick support spells instead?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Clouded Vision is a really bad idea, IMO. I'd actually call it the worst curse to pick, in fact (especially if you wanted ranged stuff!). You need to look at it this way: Which curses are the least inconveniencing or easiest to overcome? With clouded vision, yeah eventual short range blidsight is great and all... but you can NEVEr ever see beyond 60 ft! And I know of no spell or effect to help with that. Can you not see how that could prove to be very very bad for you? Conversely, spells can give you extrasensory perception if you need it. Thus, Clouded Vision is a poor choice for curse.

Flame is far from my favorite for mystery choice, but you picked decent revelations, overall (Touch of Flame is super crappy till level 11, though, IMO). Yes, you don't get good blasting spells as an Oracle, you should probably familiarize yourself with the spell list better. Ultimate Magic added some decent options, if it is allowed.

You are overlooking one decent ranged "attack" you have -- Intimidate. It's a class skill with Flame and you have a huge charisma to rock it with. In PF, you can Intimidate up to 30 ft away. You can also take Weapon Focus and Dazzling Display feats to be able to turn Intimidate into a 30 ft area of effect as a full round action. Consider going that route and swapping your extra revelation feat (lose touch of flame) to start on that. ...Actually, you can't till level 3 due to BAB.

If you can redo your ability scores, I'd recommend going Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 16 before racial (or switch Str and Dex). If you are able and willing to rebuild it completely, I'd recommend looking at the Battle Mystery. It has tons of awesome revelations: War Sight, Skill at Arms, Weapon Mastery (allows you to get Weapon Focus at level 1!), and Iron Skin are all amazing, and most of the others aren't bad, either. I like Haunted curse for the extra spells, but if you just want a non-annoying curse Tongues and Lame are decent picks.

Good 1st level spells (see list here):
Murderous Command ---\
Command -------------/ pick one, not both
Bless
Burning Disarm (obscure source)


Yeah, 1st level spells are pretty weak. Some others like Obscuring Mist are actually good, but have no real benefit for CL or high charisma, so they're not worth a precious spell known slot when you can just get scrolls.

 

[Is_907]

Thanks for the feedback. I don't think Clouded Vision is the biggest problem--30 feet is enough for range close spells, anyway...

I think the issue is that I had the class in my head one way and didn't have enough time to learn it well.

If I rebuild the character I'll probably pick support type spells. I already had Command, just didn't get a chance to use it last night heh.

Another issue is probably the fact that in my home games I houserule that "melee touch" is a DEX based attack for spells. I mean, seriously, how is Strength going to help you place your hand on someone?


Thanks for the feedback. Since this is PFSociety, I'll probably just retire this guy and roll up something similar in background and RP style, but with a class more up my alley.

 

[DalkonCledwin]

You can also go the pure defensive route instead of going for an offensive Oracle. In this case you would want to pick the Lore Mystery, probably taking a non-intrusive Curse such as Tongues. With the Lore Mystery, you will want to take the Sidestep Secret Revelation which lets you substitute your Charisma modifier in place of your dexterity modifier on your Armor Class and Reflex Scores. This is really good because it gives you one of the higher Armor Class and Reflex totals at level one. Additionally if you take the Extra Revelation Feat you can take the Lore Keeper Revelation which lets you substitute your Charisma modifier in place of your Intelligence Modifier on all Knowledge Skill checks which is simply awesome for Charisma based characters such as the Oracle.

Personally Lore Mystery is one of my personal favorite mysteries for the Oracle because of its sheer defensive capabilities. Additionally if you take 2 levels of paladin, the Charisma bonus to your Saving Throws I believe stacks with the change to the Reflex save that is granted by Sidestep Secret!

 

[Dingo333]

Oracles tend to be more support, buff/debuff then actual blasters

To this end, a life oracle will slowly edge out a cleric (Channel for channel energy, Energy body for easy self heal/others without a spell, life link: you sit back, heal yourself and the damage others takes is sent to you, spirit boost, extra hp when you "over heal")

For the Flame oracle, you wanna multiclass into a sorcerer probally with either a dragon or fire elemental bloodline, oracle is great for the dip for burning magic, but otherwise not that useful.

As for curses, tounges is the best. You add the languages to your list and it does not stop spell casting (except those language dependant spells). Next best is probally deaf. Yes that is -4 to initative, but that is countered by improved initative and you decrease the penalty to 0 at level 10

 

[concerro]

Hey all,
So I tried to run an Oracle tonight (Human, Flame mystery), at a Pathfinder Society event. We had a great time and I loved the RP elements of the class...
But in combat I was absolutely useless.

All the best spells I wanted to use are melee touch based and, well, having a STR mod of 0 and a BAB of 0... I was useless.

Am I playing the class wrong or did I build it wrong? Wrong spell choices?

Help me!

You have to build the class according to what you want to do. If you want to fight you need to get a higher strength score, as an example.

 

[Is_907]

Thanks for the tips, guys.

I may try to build another Oracle if I retire this one... this PF Society thing is a twice a month gig that a buddy and I are doing to help encourage local RPG awareness. The guy running it is great, and in a normal game might even let me rebuild the character... but we're bound by Paizo's rules here.

Anyway, I really appreciate all the tips. I'm definitely looking into the Lore Revelation. Sounds very interesting.

 

[Kaisoku]

Beyond the mechanical problems presented by the curses, Clouded Vision and Deaf are fairly largely impacting on just adjudicating what your character is able to perceive during play.
Annoying at best, and potentially game disrupting otherwise.

Looking at my Life Oracle's spell list, the 1st level spell selection I've got is basically a big list of defensive/utility spells, with one notable exception on Command.

2nd level and higher gets into some nice offense spells (Hold Person, Spear of Purity/Searing Light, Spiritual Weapon/Ally, etc).

One thing to keep in mind is that as a Spontaneous caster, you won't have the option to completely change your spell selection with a single rest. Specialty spells like Remove Curse, Disease, Blindness/Deafness are not worth burning a slot to get, however it can be a huge pain when you have literally no access to it at all.
The game assumptions of a cleric in the group (who can just rest and memorize the spell) can mean APs might be a little tough unless you can get your hands on some scrolls for backup. Not sure how scrolls work in PFS though.
Also, you are typically one level behind the cleric on getting new spell access, so that's another factor even if you are burning spell selection on something important.

Don't get caught in the middle of the dungeon to find out you critically need Remove Paralysis to recover or get stuck on a bit of a roadblock (like I did).