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Falling from Great Heights

Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.
The alternative to surviving falls is "killing Thor with a push spell."

If you start handing out exceptions to the rule, you have to seriously consider why you aren't just codifying the exception in a way that doesn't make it exceptional.
 

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Elf Witch

First Post
Not a fan of Lord of the Rings?

Who fell into a pool of lave in LOTR and lived? And who feel from terminal velocity and lived?

I have only read the first book so maybe it is different than the movies.

But Gandalf is the only one I know who fell and he did die but was resurrected.
 

Eldritch_Lord

Adventurer
No that's not all there is to it.

That's all there is to it in your game.

But D&D Next is not about your game, it's about everybody games. It's about having the ability to be as many different versions of D&D as there are groups playing it.

A base system that is simple and realistic (as possible), with add-on modules to crank it up to any other sort of style or play type, is what D&D Next is striving for.


Whay is this so hard for people to wrap their heads around or accept...

:erm:

That's how it's been, by the RAW before houserules, in every edition thus far. As I said, whether you want it to be that way in 5e is up to you, but unrealistic falling damage and many other unrealistic mechanics have been features rather than bugs since before 1e. People who try to houserule things to "fix" falling damage and lava and such are missing the larger picture, I feel, no offense intended to you; D&D should definitely not start at "mid-level people are realistic" and work its way up, it should start at "mid-level people are mythical Greek heroes" and be able to be adjusted up or down.

If there's one thing that's stayed the same through the 2e-3e change and the 3e-4e change, it's that realistic people are low-level and the game world always tries to model that, with the rate at which you become unrealistic varying by edition. Moreover, it's much easier to houserule in absolutes based on heroic rules ("Lava kills you, period") than it is to extrapolate more heroic rules from absolutes ("How much damage does Kratos take from laval?").

So play what you like, and feel free to houserule to your heart's content, but I strongly believe that the based D&D power curve should remain where it is.

Unless I'm mistaken a CR 8 creature should be an epic fight for a level 5 party, which would make it an epic fight for a lone 8th level character?

I probably should have explained that better: a MM-standard dragon of Large size is on average CR 8-10 depending on color, as per the SRD, so it would be roughly CR 5-7 after you take away its breath weapon and spellcasting; since a "boss fight" is even CR, CR 5-7 looks like an appropriate CR for a fight that overwhelms and ultimately kills a level 4-6 Beowulf despite his best efforts but doesn't wipe the floor with him. Clearer?
 

Incenjucar

Legend
Who fell into a pool of lave in LOTR and lived? And who feel from terminal velocity and lived?

I have only read the first book so maybe it is different than the movies.

But Gandalf is the only one I know who fell and he did die but was resurrected.

Fantasy and Hollywood almost never use realistic notions of lava. LotR is no exception. What happens in reality doesn't really automatically apply to a character covered in magic and blessings such that they can slay things that can invent an entire race on a whim and a gesture, anyways.
 

Elf Witch

First Post
Fantasy and Hollywood almost never use realistic notions of lava. LotR is no exception. What happens in reality doesn't really automatically apply to a character covered in magic and blessings such that they can slay things that can invent an entire race on a whim and a gesture, anyways.

So no one actually fell into the lava and lived.

I am well aware that Hollywood does not do realistic things. One of my favorite is getting hit on the head. It is a standard thing to knock someone out. But in real life if you get knocked out especially for the length of time they do in Hollywood you would not just wake up and be able to go on. You would be vomiting your guts out, have blurry vision and be unsteady on your feet. That is not to mention that fact that a blow to knock you out can be deadly.

But we all agree to go along with it. Just like we all agree that Jack Bauer can across town in LA in ten minutes, Indiana Jones can hang on to a sub periscope in the ocean and not drown or suffer from hypothermia. Or why the vampires and demons just don't get guns and blow the slayer away.

But most of us would be going WTF if a character fell into lava and didn't die or fell out of a plane and hit the rock hard ground.

Some of us are just not willing to say any mortal character can fall a long distance and every time get up and walk away.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
You know....

We need a 15th level human to come out of the shadows...
so we can push him off a building to see if he survives.

I think he will.
 


Aaron

First Post
Poisons: There are lots of different poisons, with varying lethality. And a poison's effect is incredibly variable (dosage, body weight of target, constitution/fortitude of target, mode of exposure, etc.)
How are you going to take into account things like dosage, body weight, and so no?

IMHO you are just trying to obtain an unrealizable result in D&D.

In D&D high level characters can drink bottles of poisons without any negative effect, no matter their body weight, dosage etc.

Also, very few poisons kill immediately unless exposed to massive doses. In the real world, people survive poisonings all the time, sometimes even without medical attention.
Unfortunately in D&D even poisons aren't realistic at all, and are designed for unrealistic people.

In real life there are no Dark reaver powder, Purple worm poison or Dragon bile.

Acid: Again, this is a variable threat. If it's a pool of acid, then see the rules for Lava
Good luck to your PCs in any dungeon.

An Acid attack however (splashing, spray, etc.) is just Hit Point damage (IMO).
I can't see why.

Fire: Fire also is variable. It depends on the time of exposure, the heat of the fire, mitigating objects, clothing, or a shield, etc.
A list of parameters you can't consider in a D&D game.

Fire isn't usually immediately lethal (which is why death by burning was such an absolutely horrible punishment). So in this case also, Hit Point damage works just fine for me.
But what about a PC trapped inside a closed room in fire?

As to a Giant's club (as I think somebody mentioned earlier), I think the damage potential should be much higher than typically represented.
How many Giant's club hits should a high level character be able to sustain before dying in your "realistic" scenario?

But getting lucky and not suffering maximum Hit Point damage from such an attack is a reasonable outcome. There are a ton of variables in any weapon attack. Even a the attack from a Giant's club. So variable damage potential, modeled by Hit Points also works.
So your PCs are going to face deadly enemies 24/7 because they know they are incredibly lucky?

Isn't the same thing as jumping from 200' and knowing the impact will not kill you?

But Lava (falling onto lava, as one cannot fall into lava) is almost certainly instant death.
This sounds apodictic.

There are hundreds of lethal menaces in D&D.

Heck, even a large boulder falling onto an unaware human should squash him like a bug.

Not to mention that, IMHO, a Masonry wall (1 ft. thick) should "survive" to many "attacks".

But in D&D such a wall has hardness 8 and 90 hps.

A high level barbarian has many more hps than a masonry wall.

And Falling Damage, based on real world consequences, falls of 50 feet are about 50% fatal, with the chances of survival quickly diminishing to practically zero very quickly.
I don't want to imagine the real world consequences of being hit by a giant's club, anywhere on my body.

PCs who must face real world consequences would never face real world insurmountable menaces.

In real life no group of 4 people would ever face a colossal dragon, or anything of CR >4.
 
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Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
No the 1e player's hand book says 1d6 per 10' fallen.
Yes, but if your read the rules for thief/acrobats in UA you can see that the rule was intended to be 1d6 cumulative. Gary stated as much in a later article n Dragon. (The rule was changed by an editor without Gary's consent).
 

tlantl

First Post
Well that would make falling more dangerous for sure.

It also would be nice if those little gems were in a section where the numbers weren't mashed together, making your eyes bleed.
 

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