Hacking GUMSHOE for a skill challenge

[Quickleaf]

Ah, yeah, that's a bit twisty. Its good though, if the PCs fail, then there's some sort of conflict with the Wild Hunt (unnecessary and probably ill-fated). If they succeed then the correct enemy is divined and things go better for the PCs. Works for me.

Yeah that's the idea. Throughout the adventure there is the question of "What is the purpose of the Wild Hunt? What is it after?"

Hmm, maybe coming at this from the players' perspective will help me create clues. What sorts of questions are my players likely to ask upon investigating the Wild Hunt in Dunneebrook? Then I'll use those questions to create clues.

Q1: Are there any survivors?
I want the players to use their deductive reasoning to figure out what happened, so I don't want a survivor just explaining everything to them on a silver platter. It is possible however that a compromised survivor - such as the village idiot or madman - might have information but be unable to convey it clearly. But why would the mages leave this one person alive?

Q2: Why would anyone attack an innocent village like Dunneebrook? Does it have something to do with trading with fey?
Common view of the Wild Hunt is that there is no rhyme nor reason to its raids. However, the whole "faerie market" angle will arouse the players' suspicions. There could be some fey the PCs can interact with...perhaps household brownies who fled to the Feywild when the Wild Hunt came? Or simply trading partners that dwell in the Feywild most of the year? They wouldn't be direct witnesses...but maybe they can explain the minor magic that is traded and the ley line?

Q3: Are there any signs of the catoblepas / Questing Beast?
The group has already agreed to a quest to bring a catoblepas heart to a Vistani witch (and the vampire cavalier agreed to a geas). The King had a vision of a catoblepas which foretells his death unless the catoblepas's head is presented to the king before the end of winter. The catoblepas is preferred prey of the Wild Hunt, so the PCs may suspect the Wild Hunt came to Dunneebrook tracking the catoblepas. Maybe as a creature which traverses between worlds the catoblepas follows the ley line?

Q4: Where has the Wild Hunt or whoever is responsible gone?
There is a trapped peryton shadow somewhere in the village. Perytons have humanoid shadows, and in 4e it's theorized they are cursed elves. In my campaign, perytons follow the Wild Hunt as scavengers but are also mystically bonded to it as the Wild Hunt is likewise cursed. I'm not sure how the shadow was trapped - pixie magic? - but if the PCs release it they can try to follow the shadow back to the Wild Hunt. Not sure how I can relate this to the core mystery of the investigation though?

When it comes to the mages who used a teleport circle to return home, it's feasible the PCs might encounter the rare ink and chalk used to create the circle (which has since been obscured). I'm thinking a chalk made from crushed blink dog bones or something equally evil.

 

[Ratskinner]

I really need to pick up a copy of ToC/Gumshoe just to learn how to do these sorts of adventures well (better anyway). lol. That all sounds quite practical, though I'm not sure what the purpose of the scene card is exactly.

Its sort of a "Cut!" card for the DM. You can wave it to let them know they've mined the areas/scene for all the clues its worth, rather than have them try every single thing they possibly can think of and taking up hours of gametime in the process.

 

[Ratskinner]

@Ratskinner Thanks! When you say "plan twice as many clues than I think are needed", do you mean core clues specifically?

Basically, yes. Although "copies" of clues which point to the same information are acceptable. The one critique I have of using GUMSHOE ideas in other systems is that the players didn't necessarily sign up for mystery play and usually aren't as good at the "police procedural" mindset as they need to be to solve mysteries as GUMSHOE presents them. (I agree with the article you cite about the "breadcrumb trail" part.)

I was reading about the Three Clue Rule (http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1118/roleplaying-games/three-clue-rule) which states: for every conclusion you want the PCs to reach provide 3 clues pointing toward it. I think that works great for an adventure focused on investigation, but is it too much detail for a scene? I mean, say I'm using 6 clues as a starting point - one per area of investigation in Dunneebrook. To make sure the players have enough information I'm supposed to provide 12-18 clues!

How many conclusions do they need to reach? You originally thought the 6 clues were enough, and if you only need them to draw two or maybe three conclusions about the event, that might be adequate. IME, D&D players have an unfortunate habit of assiduously avoiding the things the DM thinks are obvious. ::shrug::

While the adventure I'm planning is investigation intensive, I know my players don't take good notes and tend to forget stuff (in part it's them, in part our sessions can be scheduled far apart) so between sessions it is unlikely they'll keep even 6 clues straight. IOW I need to be able to resolve any investigation scene within one night (and preferrably it doesn't take up the *whole* night).

If you GUMSHOE it, and keep any combats very brief or for the climactic conclusion, that shouldn't be a problem.

Here's the truth of what happenend so far:

I've already foreshadowed the magocracy Suleistarn is suspected of gearing up for war. A covert team of mages was sent to drain Dunneebrook's unique ley line and kill all witnesses without implicating the magocracy (i.e. pin the attack on a monster or fall guy). The Wild Hunt has arrived as a harbinger of war and senses the impending attack on Dunneebrook, so they ride to Dunneebrook to abduct the people (to spare them or exploit them, depending on one's perspective). The village Druid manages to repel the Wild Hunt (how?) long enough for villagers to fortify the chapel and send a messenger to the King for help. The messenger leaves Dunneebrook but his horse spooks from the supernatural storm and he is knocked unconcsious. Then the mages arrive and begin draining the ley line and slaughtering the villagers. A group of "weihon" children (magically gifted but untrained) flee to the Wild Hunt which abducts them and rides off. The mages finish sacking Dunneebrook and cast a teleport circle back to their magocracy. The messenger comes to, sees Dunneebrook in ruins and assumes it was the Wild Hunt, he rides off to warn the King.

So it looks (to me) like there are a couple of possibly important conclusions to draw for future PC action:

• The Wild Hunt took/have the weihon kids.
• The Magocracy of Suleistarn is responsible for the destruction of the town.

So six clues might be enough, if they are blatant enough.

But then, they also have to understand:

• The Suleistarnians and Wild Hunt were not working together.
• The Ley Line has been drained.

So looking at your list of sites and some clue guesses:

• Charred Homes - a token/expended component linkable to the mages? "Mage-y" footprints leading to&from the Creek?
• Fortified Chapel - Some weihon tracks escaping? Lotsa charring uncharacteristic of the Wild Hunt.
• Burgomaster's Records - presumably records of families, possibly identifying the "weihons"? Possibly a note about the Druid's warning.
• A Peryton's Shadow in a Pixie Trap - ? a what now?
• Village Idiot In the Well - an Eyewitness! Should definitely testify that two separate events happened!
• The Creek / Ley Line - residual marks from whatever the mages used or did to drain the energy? Also, the fact that the ley line has been drained!

That last bit about the ley line is very important. It must be obvious that that was important. Otherwise, I'm guessing my players would instantly conclude that the Wild Hunt have formed an Alliance with the Mageocracy to abduct all the Weihon kids and form a Jedi army to rule the Galaxy. ...or something equally off-base. In fact, I'd suggest that the toughest thing is going to be getting the party to separate the two participants and motivations. Leaving subtle clues won't be sufficient (tracks at these sites, but not those will only force the PCs to conclude that they coordinated their efforts.)

I might suggest a woodland site, where the kids' tracks disappear alongside the Wild Hunt tracks, possibly with a Druid body close by. If you want them to know how/why the Druid fended off the Wild Hunt, you'll need a new site or two for that.

If I have all that reasonably correct, you'll probably be okay. Its really hard to tell, though. Players can come with some pretty wild theories to explain evidence, and often want to fly off without all the clues.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Basically, yes. Although "copies" of clues which point to the same information are acceptable. The one critique I have of using GUMSHOE ideas in other systems is that the players didn't necessarily sign up for mystery play and usually aren't as good at the "police procedural" mindset as they need to be to solve mysteries as GUMSHOE presents them. (I agree with the article you cite about the "breadcrumb trail" part.)



How many conclusions do they need to reach? You originally thought the 6 clues were enough, and if you only need them to draw two or maybe three conclusions about the event, that might be adequate. IME, D&D players have an unfortunate habit of assiduously avoiding the things the DM thinks are obvious. ::shrug::



If you GUMSHOE it, and keep any combats very brief or for the climactic conclusion, that shouldn't be a problem.



So it looks (to me) like there are a couple of possibly important conclusions to draw for future PC action:

• The Wild Hunt took/have the weihon kids.
• The Magocracy of Suleistarn is responsible for the destruction of the town.

So six clues might be enough, if they are blatant enough.

But then, they also have to understand:

• The Suleistarnians and Wild Hunt were not working together.
• The Ley Line has been drained.

So looking at your list of sites and some clue guesses:

• Charred Homes - a token/expended component linkable to the mages? "Mage-y" footprints leading to&from the Creek?
• Fortified Chapel - Some weihon tracks escaping? Lotsa charring uncharacteristic of the Wild Hunt.
• Burgomaster's Records - presumably records of families, possibly identifying the "weihons"? Possibly a note about the Druid's warning.
• A Peryton's Shadow in a Pixie Trap - ? a what now?
• Village Idiot In the Well - an Eyewitness! Should definitely testify that two separate events happened!
• The Creek / Ley Line - residual marks from whatever the mages used or did to drain the energy? Also, the fact that the ley line has been drained!

That last bit about the ley line is very important. It must be obvious that that was important. Otherwise, I'm guessing my players would instantly conclude that the Wild Hunt have formed an Alliance with the Mageocracy to abduct all the Weihon kids and form a Jedi army to rule the Galaxy. ...or something equally off-base. In fact, I'd suggest that the toughest thing is going to be getting the party to separate the two participants and motivations. Leaving subtle clues won't be sufficient (tracks at these sites, but not those will only force the PCs to conclude that they coordinated their efforts.)

I might suggest a woodland site, where the kids' tracks disappear alongside the Wild Hunt tracks, possibly with a Druid body close by. If you want them to know how/why the Druid fended off the Wild Hunt, you'll need a new site or two for that.

If I have all that reasonably correct, you'll probably be okay. Its really hard to tell, though. Players can come with some pretty wild theories to explain evidence, and often want to fly off without all the clues.

Yeah, those are good points. Another and more heavy-handed way to make clear the antagonism between hunt and mages would be to have a couple dead hunt dogs lying around, killed by obvious magical means (IE burn marks from magic missile strikes, turned to stone, etc). A dead mage wouldn't hurt either. Of course these things risk making the mystery parts of the setup not so mysterious, but they could be additional locations or something that the PCs will have to work at a bit to figure out, maybe the dead mage got dragged off into the forest a ways and pinned to a tree by an arrow through the neck, after clearly offing a couple dogs.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=6688937]Ratskinner[/MENTION] Thanks for the great feedback I've ended up with 8 core clues and 8 or 9 secondary clues. Here are the 8 core clues...hopefully they're enough that players can deduce the Wild Hunt didn't sack the village but mages of Suleistarn did.

Burgomaster's Manor - It is still burning down, but a metal strongbox contains a letter from an emissary of Suleistarn (who the PCs have already run across) offering the burgomaster 2000 gold per brownie or weihon delivered to him.

Charred Homes - Several bodies appear to have died from mixed causes - burning, suffocation, and broken bones/internal bleeding.

Creek - Grigs flit about the creek anxiously, like ants whose convoy line has been disrupted - they appear to have been stranded in the mortal world. A spellcaster senses traces of a ley line that has been drained.

Faerie Clearing - Tracks of a large group that deliberately gathered here and didn't leave. A nearby dryad is dying (her tree was struck by lightning), and reveals she had a vision of Wild Hunt and warned the Druid Vathern that the Hunt would force him to make a difficult decision about the children.

Fortified Chapel - Peasants sought refuge in the chapel and hastily fortified it. Broken stone walls and charred bodies are scattered everywhere, the low-lying windows are shattered, and the roof still solders. Children's tracks go out the back into the woods.

Soldiers' Camp - Lord Polding is the nearest noble to the village, and he sent a unit of soldiers to bury the dead. The soldiers have two pieces of information: (1) Lord Polding's enemy the Duke of Bechaeux has been negotiating with mages of Suleistarn, and (2) They suspect the Beast of Bechaeux was involved cause they saw wolves eating corpses (this is a RED HERRING that ties into another adventure).

Village Idiot in the Cistern - Uli, the village idiot, was out picking truffles when hounds of the Wild Hunt pursued him Fleeing, he fell thru boards into the village cistern. Down there he could hear the Druid Vathern say "Now children run to the riders!" Uli heard lightning and saw strange colors, heard weihon children being taken by the Wild Hunt.

Woods - Children's tracks from the chapel run into woods several hundred feet then abruptly vanish. The corpse of a Druid lies slumped against a tree, apparently killed by a lightning bolt. A peryton (a deer-headed eagle monster with an elven shadow) feasts on the corpse's heart. If the PCs haven't rescued Uli the village idiot yet he will cry out for help.

 

[Ratskinner]

Yeah, those are good points. Another and more heavy-handed way to make clear the antagonism between hunt and mages would be to have a couple dead hunt dogs lying around, killed by obvious magical means (IE burn marks from magic missile strikes, turned to stone, etc). A dead mage wouldn't hurt either. Of course these things risk making the mystery parts of the setup not so mysterious, but they could be additional locations or something that the PCs will have to work at a bit to figure out, maybe the dead mage got dragged off into the forest a ways and pinned to a tree by an arrow through the neck, after clearly offing a couple dogs.

Those would be good "bonus" or ancillary clues, yeah. The mage body might be a bit much, given that their involvement is one of the big mysteries to figure out. (Then again, with some parties...)

 

[Quickleaf]

Yeah, those are good points. Another and more heavy-handed way to make clear the antagonism between hunt and mages would be to have a couple dead hunt dogs lying around, killed by obvious magical means (IE burn marks from magic missile strikes, turned to stone, etc). A dead mage wouldn't hurt either. Of course these things risk making the mystery parts of the setup not so mysterious, but they could be additional locations or something that the PCs will have to work at a bit to figure out, maybe the dead mage got dragged off into the forest a ways and pinned to a tree by an arrow through the neck, after clearly offing a couple dogs.

Well, part of the mages plan was for the attack not to be tied back to them, so leaving obvious evidence like a petrified hound would be bad.

I like the idea of a dead Mage, and even thought that one of the mages may have gone rogue and tried to warn the villagers only to by killed by other mages, but I fear that it would take the mystery out of the mystery.

 

[Ratskinner]

Happy to help . I hope it all works well for you.

@Ratskinner Thanks for the great feedback I've ended up with 8 core clues and 8 or 9 secondary clues. Here are the 8 core clues...hopefully they're enough that players can deduce the Wild Hunt didn't sack the village but mages of Suleistarn did.

Burgomaster's Manor - It is still burning down, but a metal strongbox contains a letter from an emissary of Suleistarn (who the PCs have already run across) offering the burgomaster 2000 gold per brownie or weihon delivered to him.

Nice. Establishes motive.

Charred Homes - Several bodies appear to have died from mixed causes - burning, suffocation, and broken bones/internal bleeding.

Good rolls should allow the PCs to identify the specific spells used for causing the deaths. Bonus points if any are trademarks of Suleistarn.

Creek - Grigs flit about the creek anxiously, like ants whose convoy line has been disrupted - they appear to have been stranded in the mortal world. A spellcaster senses traces of a ley line that has been drained.

Make sure they are minions for a quick fight (just in case). Also, can grigs talk? Better know what they'll say. Maybe all the nearby forest should be wilting?

Faerie Clearing - Tracks of a large group that deliberately gathered here and didn't leave. A nearby dryad is dying (her tree was struck by lightning), and reveals she had a vision of Wild Hunt and warned the Druid Vathern that the Hunt would force him to make a difficult decision about the children.

The Dryad is very nice. Especially if she dies after answering a few questions. Really dramatic if she confuses a PC with Vathern and asks him what he decided about the children. Expect the party to ask the grigs about the clearing. I'm unclear about the group. I assume you mean that the area is trampled with a lot of tracks from different types of creatures, and it looks like they stayed a while. Was this where the Wild Hunt arrived? Was there a battle here? Did the Fey defend the Clearing? If so, what types of blood are present? Do the tracks lead anywhere? If you put in a blatant clue about the antagonism (like @AbdulAlhazred suggested), this is a good place to put it.

Fortified Chapel - Peasants sought refuge in the chapel and hastily fortified it. Broken stone walls and charred bodies are scattered everywhere, the low-lying windows are shattered, and the roof still solders. Children's tracks go out the back into the woods.

Good. The back of the Chapel would be good place to put additional clues about Vathern fighting the Mages. For example, post-combat evidence of druid spellry or wildshaping.

Soldiers' Camp - Lord Polding is the nearest noble to the village, and he sent a unit of soldiers to bury the dead. The soldiers have two pieces of information: (1) Lord Polding's enemy the Duke of Bechaeux has been negotiating with mages of Suleistarn, and (2) They suspect the Beast of Bechaeux was involved cause they saw wolves eating corpses (this is a RED HERRING that ties into another adventure).

Not bad. I presume Suleistarn's reputation with the party is such that they will be pursuing any hint about it? Otherwise, I don't see how G.I. Jack would think its relevant. Will the PC's hit this only after hitting the Burgomaster's Manor?

Village Idiot in the Cistern - Uli, the village idiot, was out picking truffles when hounds of the Wild Hunt pursued him Fleeing, he fell thru boards into the village cistern. Down there he could hear the Druid Vathern say "Now children run to the riders!" Uli heard lightning and saw strange colors, heard weihon children being taken by the Wild Hunt.

Not bad. Make sure you've got a bunch of traumatized Uli-speak ready. Uli should be focused on his own trauma, the information should come secondarily, almost incidentally. (Unless you're not into acting out Uli.)

Woods - Children's tracks from the chapel run into woods several hundred feet then abruptly vanish. The corpse of a Druid lies slumped against a tree, apparently killed by a lightning bolt. A peryton (a deer-headed eagle monster with an elven shadow) feasts on the corpse's heart. If the PCs haven't rescued Uli the village idiot yet he will cry out for help.

Maybe have some giant dog tracks meet up with the kids' tracks just before they vanish.

It looks like you've got it.

 

[Ratskinner]

I like the idea of a dead Mage, and even thought that one of the mages may have gone rogue and tried to warn the villagers only to by killed by other mages, but I fear that it would take the mystery out of the mystery.

How about a skinny male arm, ripped off at the elbow and apparently embedded in some tree limbs or bushes behind the Chapel? Perhaps as a result of some Druidic attack spell like Wall of Thorns? Later, when the party sees a mage who is missing his arm....

 

[Quickleaf]

Make sure they are minions for a quick fight (just in case). Also, can grigs talk? Better know what they'll say. Maybe all the nearby forest should be wilting?

Oh, the Grigs are more background. I do have them written up as minions but they're a non-threat. I have them as just above semi-intelligent (Int 5) with extremely limited vocabulary and the mentality of young children. If PCs really go after questioning Grigs, it'll probably lead to some ridiculous pantomime on my part.

I'm unclear about the group. I assume you mean that the area is trampled with a lot of tracks from different types of creatures, and it looks like they stayed a while. Was this where the Wild Hunt arrived? Was there a battle here? Did the Fey defend the Clearing? If so, what types of blood are present? Do the tracks lead anywhere? If you put in a blatant clue about the antagonism (like @AbdulAlhazred suggested), this is a good place to put it.

Oops, the tracks are supposed to be human boot prints from the mages heading to their rendezvous point to cast linked portal to teleport back to Suleistarn.

I'm thinking of keeping the obvious clue of antagonism between Wild Hunt and mages as a backup in case the players are totally off base.

Good. The back of the Chapel would be good place to put additional clues about Vathern fighting the Mages.

Good idea.

Not bad. I presume Suleistarn's reputation with the party is such that they will be pursuing any hint about it? Otherwise, I don't see how G.I. Jack would think its relevant. Will the PC's hit this only after hitting the Burgomaster's Manor?

Yeah, the PCs are pretty suspicious of Suleistarn. An emissary of Suleistarn they met in the first adventure gave the king a gift - the Green Orb of Dragonkind - and shortly thereafter a red dragon attacked the castle demanding the orb; in the chaos the emissary fled on horseback. Also in a past campaign the "witch-finders of Suleistarn" were like bogeymen that were only alluded to but never encountered.

As far as when do the PCs encounter the soldiers, I think the order of which scenes they investigate is up to them. My thinking is the soldiers camp is already there when the PCs arrive.

Not bad. Make sure you've got a bunch of traumatized Uli-speak ready. Uli should be focused on his own trauma, the information should come secondarily, almost incidentally. (Unless you're not into acting out Uli.)

Yeah, this exactly

How about a skinny male arm, ripped off at the elbow and apparently embedded in some tree limbs or bushes behind the Chapel? Perhaps as a result of some Druidic attack spell like Wall of Thorns? Later, when the party sees a mage who is missing his arm....

This I like! Maybe the arm can have some feature identifying it as coming from a Suleistarni, like a ring or tattoo or something...