What happened to Growing Up?

[Psikosis]

Developmental insights

From a neurodevelopmental perspective, the human brain is done developing by age 25. The brain remains plastic to varying degrees throughout the lifespan, depending on various genetic and epigenetic factors unique to the individual. But by 25, a person has a full set of cognitive and emotional skills and abilities common to all persons. There are, of course, exceptions because of genetic problems such as trisomy-21 (Down's Syndrome), substance abuse, and mental illness, among other problems. Adult-like behavior may be present in younger persons who are compelled by culture, hardship, or other circumstance to adopt adult roles, but even these individuals lack the the more nuanced cognitive and emotional abilities that are completed in late adolescence.

That said, hardships such as poverty, may help spur changes in the typical developmental trajectory. For example, it may increase the likelihood of a person developing a significantly altered ability to appraise risk and benefits. This change occurs at the biological level within the brain. That is, it is not something that can be unlearned with a few sessions of psychotherapy or skills training. The result of this change is an increase in impulsive, risk-taking behavior that is similar to what one might expect from a 13 to 16 year-old so the person may appear less mature well into his or her adult years. But it's not a lack of maturity, it's simply that the individual understands the world in a different way.

In sum, there are multiple reasons why it seems people mature more slowly now than in the past. Some are good. As others have noted, we don't demand adult roles of children, for example. Others reflect the consequences of social problems such as poverty and mental illness.

 

[Umbran]

I do not get the sense that the kids getting out of high school are ready to be adults.

Two questions, then:

1) Where do you get your sense? Do you actually have contact with a statistically relevant number of high-school graduates, or somehting?

2) Where did you get the sense that kids of yesteryear were actually any different than kids of today?

It would be really awesome if you named a time period you're comparing today to, by the way. We could then start pulling out statistics that shine some light on the question.

How do I think adults should behave?
Willing to take responsibility for their actions and in-actions (wouldn't that be something). No just "oh, my bad," but "This is my fault, and I will do whatever it takes to fix it."

There's some Golden Age where people in general took responsibility? When was that?

You know how Truman made a big deal out of "the buck stops here"? His word choice means that "passing the buck" was a well-known turn of phrase before Truman. So, the Golden Age must be solidly before his time in office...

For example, say the 1950s. You know how many men were, by today's standards, alcoholic wife-abusers in those days? These paragons of being part of society slapping their wives and kids around. Great stuff!

The 1960s... with experimental drug use, commmunes, Woodstock, and the summer of love?

The 1970s? Yes, the world was filled with folks who were up to taking responsibility for their actions. That's why Karen Silkwood died!

The 1980s? Oh, yeah. Cocaine and "greed is good". Mature folks taking responsible actions by the hordes there...

Go ahead, pick your time period, and we'll talk about how ready folks were to really be functional parts of society.

I don't know about you, in particular, but humans commonly wear rose colored glasses when looking at the past - somehow things were always better back then, glossing over the problems of the age. You don't get to compare the bad things of today with the good things of yesterday, and call them equivalent.

Having pride of self worth not because some self-esteem instructor told them to, but by earning it through some form of accomplishment.

What accomplishments are you apt to make if you can't get a job to support yourself? The esteem you want them to have has prerequisites that often aren't available now at an early age.

 

[sabrinathecat]

1: I challenge you to find anyone with "Statistically relevant" access to high-school graduates. That would have to number in hundreds of thousands if not in the millions. I'd bet not even the superintendent of the largest school district in the country has that many students under him/her, and certainly not direct, personal access to them.

2: as you say, define yesteryear. How about this: take any period. But since you like specifics, let's take 1945-1965.

For example, say the 1950s. You know how many men were, by today's standards, alcoholic wife-abusers in those days? These paragons of being part of society slapping their wives and kids around. Great stuff!

Apples, oranges

The 1960s... with experimental drug use, commmunes, Woodstock, and the summer of love?

Which hasn't stopped.

The 1970s? Yes, the world was filled with folks who were up to taking responsibility for their actions. That's why Karen Silkwood died!

Who?

The 1980s? Oh, yeah. Cocaine and "greed is good". Mature folks taking responsible actions by the hordes there...

So, that would be part of the problem. Since you started with Truman, clearly this is not the era to be looking at.

I don't know about you, in particular, but humans commonly wear rose colored glasses when looking at the past - somehow things were always better back then, glossing over the problems of the age. You don't get to compare the bad things of today with the good things of yesterday, and call them equivalent.

Yes, people do. People also rose to meet challenges.
And again: apples, oranges

What accomplishments are you apt to make if you can't get a job to support yourself? The esteem you want them to have has prerequisites that often aren't available now at an early age.

What accomplishments? Boy/Girl Scouts. Martial arts. Art and Science. Learning. Being ready to be a grown up.
Again, I am NOT talking about Getting a Job. I am not talking about having a job. I am talking about being Mature enough and Responsible enough to handle having a job. And based on the people interviewing at the restaurant last time I was there, the majority aren't.

People in my mother's generation were babysitting infants when 12 years old. The eldest children sometimes had to give up their chance at an education to earn money to support the family so that the younger would have a chance. These were not good things, but they were what was expected, and what was done.
Can you see that happening today?

You want a couple of modern examples? How about the 14 year old in Texas who just got off with murdering (that's MURDER) four people, because he has "affluency syndrome." Yeah, his family was so rich that they never had to teach him right or wrong, so he gets to escape punishment for MURDERING Four People. Oh, he's been sentenced to a $500k special camp for sensitivity training for the next couple of years. Now, please tell me how that is possible: that someone doesn't know that it is wrong to kill people. (I'd love to be the judge during the wrongful death lawsuit against the parents.)

Less dramatic: last month, someone drove by, was too close to the side of the lane, and tore the side mirror off my car. Did they stop? Yes. Did they leave a note? No. After stopping, they peeled rubber and raced away. Is that the action of an adult? No, that is the action of a child. I do not care if the driver was 17 or 70. I found out from my neighbor that this has happened several times in the last few years. His guess was once per year (but that is not, as you are so fond of, statistically relevant.

 

[Jet Shield]

What accomplishments? Boy/Girl Scouts. Martial arts. Art and Science. Learning. Being ready to be a grown up.
Again, I am NOT talking about Getting a Job. I am not talking about having a job. I am talking about being Mature enough and Responsible enough to handle having a job. And based on the people interviewing at the restaurant last time I was there, the majority aren't.

I, personally, know dozens of youngsters that not only are mature and responsible enough to have a job, but that actually do work. Some hold part time jobs they work at after school. Others do odd jobs where they can. Several volunteer at various non-profits around the area. A couple work, go to school, and do volunteer work, particularly around this time of year.

People in my mother's generation were babysitting infants when 12 years old. The eldest children sometimes had to give up their chance at an education to earn money to support the family so that the younger would have a chance. These were not good things, but they were what was expected, and what was done.
Can you see that happening today?

I see it happening frequently today. I would guess that you don't hear about it because they're not out causing trouble, so they aren't news-worthy.

You want a couple of modern examples? How about the 14 year old in Texas who just got off with murdering (that's MURDER) four people, because he has "affluency syndrome." Yeah, his family was so rich that they never had to teach him right or wrong, so he gets to escape punishment for MURDERING Four People. Oh, he's been sentenced to a $500k special camp for sensitivity training for the next couple of years. Now, please tell me how that is possible: that someone doesn't know that it is wrong to kill people. (I'd love to be the judge during the wrongful death lawsuit against the parents.)

Less dramatic: last month, someone drove by, was too close to the side of the lane, and tore the side mirror off my car. Did they stop? Yes. Did they leave a note? No. After stopping, they peeled rubber and raced away. Is that the action of an adult? No, that is the action of a child. I do not care if the driver was 17 or 70. I found out from my neighbor that this has happened several times in the last few years. His guess was once per year (but that is not, as you are so fond of, statistically relevant.

You cite two anomalies as examples, and only one of them involves a child. How about citing some source that studies the average teenager of today?

 

[Kramodlog]

I can't believe it, I agree with Goldo.

It can happen twice a year. After that it means you are turning into a Québecois.

 

[Kramodlog]

1: I challenge you to find anyone with "Statistically relevant" access to high-school graduates. That would have to number in hundreds of thousands if not in the millions. I'd bet not even the superintendent of the largest school district in the country has that many students under him/her, and certainly not direct, personal access to them.

Out of curiosity, are you saying that a poll that questioned 1,000 people is not statistically relevant?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Personally, I am Peter Pan, so I am a bad example.

However, I have noted that at the local- and fairly affluent- public HS, the number of juniors & seniors who don't have a car or other form or transportation of their own is higher than I have ever seen. I had to drive my cousin to/from school many a time, and the "parent circle" was jam-packed, 2 lanes wide.

Even post-graduation, neither my cousin nor most of his friends have vehicles. And where we live, there is no public transpiration, so they're still dependent on friends and relatives to get around.

Of those I know, most who are not full-time students are working part-time, relatively low-wage jobs.

 

[sabrinathecat]

Yeah, I site two random examples. You site a few random examples.
Life is a statistical anomaly.

Bluntly, I envy you knowing more that two or three responsible young people.
You are well outside my experience with that ratio.

 

[delericho]

OK, folks: Apples, Oranges.

I am not talking about how crappy our economy is.
I am not talking about the lack of jobs.
These are both very serious problems.

I am talking about basic maturity and attitude.

They're connected, though.

A very large portion of our youth cannot move out of home and become independent earlier than they do - so many more jobs require degrees or other advanced training, so many of those jobs just don't pay enough or are really not stable, housing has become hugely expensive, and the kids are saddled with huge debts (for that extra schooling, and also because debt has become an epidemic in our society in general).

So, they stay with their parents.

But here's the thing: if you don't have to learn responsibility (because you've got bills to pay, because you need to ensure there's food on the table, because you need clean clothes to wear), then there's very little incentive to do so - dealing with those things sucks.

 

[Janx]

I don't disagree with Sabrina's original statement.

it does SEEM as if young adults (18+) are less mature/ready to take on the world.

But I accept that's just a perception. For me, it's based on watching my younger friends flail about, trying to make their way in the world.

Shows like Jersey Shore (that I've never seen) reinforce that sense that young adults really got no sense of getting to it.


And the economy is likely part of the problem, if there are a larger # of unready young adults.

In spain, young adults are unemployed in larger numbers than in the past, and they are stuck.

Here in America, jobs are also scarce (though probably more available in spain).

The number of young people living at home, or worse having to move back in because of job loss is generally acknowledged as being higher (I hear articles about the economy and this point on NPR all the time).

So let's tie these 2 factors together.

How would you feel (and thus behave), as a young adult if you were stuck at home still (or had to move back)?

How would you percieve the greater number of young adults who are still living at home?

I'm inclined to think many of them wouldn't feel like they grew up. And with nothing to do (sending out resumes is not a full time job), goofing off is probably the next thing on the list.

I'm inclined to think that most of us aren't able to mentally connect the dots that people who don't have jobs are in the situation because the economy sucks right now. Hence, why lots of people will blame the victim and assume they are lazy or something is wrong with them.

I have no doubt, some of them are lazy (perhaps wooed by the apparent charmed life of their ambititious but equally stuck peers). But there's probably more people who are just plain stuck right now, and perhaps their lifestyle is making us think they are more aimless than they really are.