D&D 5E Does 5E avoid the overloads of previous editions?

[pickin_grinnin]

As I said, it's not as well known as the famous superheroes, but if it can obtain just 1/100th the level of recognition, it's a sizable and valuable market to go after.

Being aware of the existence of something is not the same as having strong, positive brand recognition. D&D suffers from some pretty negative connotations, even when you cut out all the old BS like the Satanism and suicide scares. It's popularly viewed as a dorky game played by geeky teenagers, and not in the current "geek chic" way.

I have no doubt that they will make some sales from their big cross-media/products push. The big question is whether the sales will ultimately justify the cost of doing so, when you figure everything in. Without a really strong brand, my bet is that it won't be worth it in the long run. We'll just have to see how it pans out.

 

[Mistwell]

All of those shows were positive towards D&D. It was portrayed as a necessary element of nerdy education. It's hip to be a nerd these days, and the d20 symbol is a strong one in those circles. I think your assumptions about negative association are a tad outdated these days. The generation that came next thinks D&D (in theory) is cool.

Remember, comic books also used to have a negative connotation, not too long ago. Heck, even personal computers did. Ans video games. These things change, and D&D turned that corner some years ago.

Being aware of the existence of something is not the same as having strong, positive brand recognition. D&D suffers from some pretty negative connotations, even when you cut out all the old BS like the Satanism and suicide scares. It's popularly viewed as a dorky game played by geeky teenagers, and not in the current "geek chic" way.

Uh, see my response?

 

[Umbran]

Well go ahead and put me down as saying it will fail. If it doesn't then great, but I bet you it will not succeed.

That is really easy to say, when you don't define success at the time you make the prognostication. If you don't set the goalpost firmly in the ground, it becomes really easy to move later.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

All of those shows were positive towards D&D. It was portrayed as a necessary element of nerdy education.

Actually, the Big Bang Theory episodes with D&D paint it as a goofy thing, like they do with most geek culture. In addition, a handful of shows that put it in a positive light is not indicative of a widespread interest in it.

It's hip to be a nerd these days, and the d20 symbol is a strong one in those circles.

It's hip to be a certain type of geek. Not all nerdiness or geekiness is seen as hip. D&D falls in the latter category.

I think your assumptions about negative association are a tad outdated these days. The generation that came next thinks D&D (in theory) is cool.

Some do, most don't. I work with kids and teens every day. As a librarian, I have run a number of D&D events (and even long campaigns) in my library, stock rpg books that can be checked out by anyone in our large library consortium (or by others via Interlibrary Loan), etc. I have been doing that for years. Very few teens or adults think that it's cool. Elementary school aged kids often don't have the patience for it, since they're use to more immediate gratification from console games.

Remember, comic books also used to have a negative connotation, not too long ago. Heck, even personal computers did. Ans video games. These things change, and D&D turned that corner some years ago.

It shed the image of being dangerous and destructive, but not the general public's image of being a goofy, dorky pursuit of nerdy teens and men who live in their mother's basements.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

That is really easy to say, when you don't define success at the time you make the prognostication. If you don't set the goalpost firmly in the ground, it becomes really easy to move later.

If I were to set a numeric goalpost, it would be that 5e ends up having better sales and a larger ongoing user base 3 years after release than 4e did.

To me, though, the biggest gauge of success would be if more people liked the new system and chose to stay with it than was the case with earlier edition players and 4e. That's harder to quantify, though.

 

[TarionzCousin]

The ones that want it to go in another direction are gone, and they are not coming back. They're with Pathfinder, for better or for worse. WotC will not win them back, ever, and I don't think it's wise to devote energy to a futile strategy in winning them back.

I am currently running two Pathfinder games. If 5E were out, I would be running it in at least one of those groups. The prep for Pathfinder is just as arduous as it was for 3E.

My point is: some people might come back.

 

[Mistwell]

Actually, the Big Bang Theory episodes with D&D paint it as a goofy thing, like they do with most geek culture. In addition, a handful of shows that put it in a positive light is not indicative of a widespread interest in it.



It's hip to be a certain type of geek. Not all nerdiness or geekiness is seen as hip. D&D falls in the latter category.




Some do, most don't. I work with kids and teens every day. As a librarian, I have run a number of D&D events (and even long campaigns) in my library, stock rpg books that can be checked out by anyone in our large library consortium (or by others via Interlibrary Loan), etc. I have been doing that for years. Very few teens or adults think that it's cool. Elementary school aged kids often don't have the patience for it, since they're use to more immediate gratification from console games.



It shed the image of being dangerous and destructive, but not the general public's image of being a goofy, dorky pursuit of nerdy teens and men who live in their mother's basements.

I think we will have to just chalk this one up to agree to disagree. I view D&D's reputation in culture quite differently than you do. And I was not speaking to "kids" I was speaking to 20-somethings and 30-somethings, which is why I said the next generation after the generation that had a negative connotation associated with D&D. In my view, the basement-dweller connotation went away a long time ago in society, and it's just the 40+ generation that really remembers it.

 

[Mistwell]

If I were to set a numeric goalpost, it would be that 5e ends up having better sales and a larger ongoing user base 3 years after release than 4e did.

To me, though, the biggest gauge of success would be if more people liked the new system and chose to stay with it than was the case with earlier edition players and 4e. That's harder to quantify, though.

They stated a goal different than that, for what it's worth. They stated a goal that is not related to RPG sales, much. It seems they want a relatively stable, slower sales for the RPGs, as the focus is on the brand sales in general and not in beating the RPG sales of a prior edition or RPG competitor. They just don't seem to care about RPG competitors or beating prior edition sales anymore. And I don't think that is lowering expectations, and in fact I think they increased expectations. It's mostly focused on the brand rather than the RPG itself.

 

[I'm A Banana]

If I were to set a numeric goalpost, it would be that 5e ends up having better sales and a larger ongoing user base 3 years after release than 4e did.

To me, though, the biggest gauge of success would be if more people liked the new system and chose to stay with it than was the case with earlier edition players and 4e. That's harder to quantify, though.

Of course, the first goalpost is impossible to verify unless we have someone leak internal WotC sales records. There's probably people who would claim that 4e has a larger ongoing user base NOW than 3e ever did, or than PF ever will, and while that doesn't seem true from where I'm sitting, that guy's got just as much data to back up their statement as I do (that is: basically bupkiss).

 

[Lanefan]

The ones that want it to go in another direction are gone, and they are not coming back. They're with Pathfinder, for better or for worse.

Er...no we're not. Not all of us, anyway.

To some of us PF/3e is just as bad as 4e, only in different ways.

WotC will not win them back, ever, and I don't think it's wise to devote energy to a futile strategy in winning them back.

If they come out with a 5e that can be played rules-light old-school-style I (and I suspect quite a few others) will at least give it a long hard look if not adopt it wholesale.

Lanefan