I watched the whole thing

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

To fully appriciate it, you need to see this documentary first.

Makes sense.

 

[Zombie_Babies]

He doesn't get his wife killed, he is betrayed by one of his guards and someone else has her killed. He decides to come back to the US because his only reason for being in Sicily is that he is in hiding. His father negotiates with the five families and makes it safe for him to return, then takes him under his wing as the heir to the family business. I think it makes complete sense that as part of that transition he would want to take a wife and have kids. I do not understand why this is so baffling to you.

he is an anti-hero because he starts our as spmeone who rejects his family's crimiinal lifestyle and by the end he becomes the leader of a criminal empire. In the second movie he even goes to the point of having his brother killed. He basically saves the family in the first film. I do not at all see poor character development here.

Hang on a sec. I'm with you in thinking Godfather (the first one anyway) is a real classic but I think you've missed something with the bold: Would she have died if it weren't for Michael? That renders HS' criticism of Michael's actions more valid. Cuz if he already had one family killed cuz of him and he's this good guy, why on earth would he subject this blonde to the same potential fate? If anything, it shows him to be selfish.

 

[Zombie_Babies]

You want to watch the new Transformer movie, don't you? Admit it! You love Bay!

This one has dinosaurs and Marky-Mark!

Sounds to me more like MURDER and KILLING are central themes, and Family is a side footnote or easter egg.

And just for the record: Michael Bay, Kurtzman, and Orci should all be sodomized with chainsaws.

If it was relevant material, it should have been in the first movie. It wasn't.

Meh, family was certainly a central theme. It's a messed up, whacked out family with a dastardly 'family business', but there are definitely moments that show the importance of the family itself. I mean, Brando's death scene in the garden is iconic and it's all about family.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Hang on a sec. I'm with you in thinking Godfather (the first one anyway) is a real classic but I think you've missed something with the bold: Would she have died if it weren't for Michael? That renders HS' criticism of Michael's actions more valid. Cuz if he already had one family killed cuz of him and he's this good guy, why on earth would he subject this blonde to the same potential fate? If anything, it shows him to be selfish.

I never said he is this good guy, I said what good remained in him died with Apollonia. I think with Kay he just sees her as a means to an end. Now apollonia did die because of the consequenves of michael's actions. That I dont dispute. My point was that he didnt kill her or want her to die. She was killed by someone coming after michael for his murder of Sollozzo..

i agree michael is selfish. But that wasnt HS's criticism. His/her criticism was that it made no sense for him to go from apollonia dying to marying Kay and that he/she felt the timeline was too fuzzy.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

This one has dinosaurs and Marky-Mark!

OMG! You know that it's going to be an instant classic.

Meh, family was certainly a central theme. It's a messed up, whacked out family with a dastardly 'family business', but there are definitely moments that show the importance of the family itself. I mean, Brando's death scene in the garden is iconic and it's all about family.

Central? I don't know. I mean, sure, if by central you mean it was about a family. It certainly wasn't about family, just a particular family that had no redeeming qualities.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Well, to be fair, it is objectively bad. Like I said, it is terrible writing, and none to little character development.
Hmmm... may this is where we are having this confusion. I'm not saying that you are incorrect for liking the movie. I'm just saying you are wrong when you say it is a good movie. Listen, there are plenty of bad movies that a lot of people like. That doesn't make the movies any good, though. But that doesn't mean they are incorrect for liking them.

This is probably the last i will respond to here, because like i said I have wastes too much tume already pn this.

No it isnt. You didnt like it. That does not make it a bad movie. Your arguments for why you think it is objectively bad are pretty weak and unconvincing.

 

[Zombie_Babies]

I never said he is this good guy, I said what good remained in him died with Apollonia. I think with Kay he just sees her as a means to an end. Now apollonia did die because of the consequenves of michael's actions. That I dont dispute. My point was that he didnt kill her or want her to die. She was killed by someone coming after michael for his murder of Sollozzo..

Meh, he effectively killed her. I guess you could say that knowing that, in part, opened him up to his evil side, though. It's just a sharp jump from loving man to 'dood searching for sperm receptacle/baby oven' especially considering the feelings he had for Kay beforehand.

Hmm ... the death of Appolonia as his death, too? Sure. Lame (way too bludgeon-y for my taste), but sure.

OMG! You know that it's going to be an instant classic.

Hells to the yes! They haven't shown who's gonna be the chick sidekick but you know she's gonna have a quality pair of acting talents and a nice, juicy on screen presence!

Central? I don't know. I mean, sure, if by central you mean it was about a family. It certainly wasn't about family, just a particular family that had no redeeming qualities.

It's there throughout the movie.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

No it isnt.

Yes, it is.

You didnt like it.

Because it is a bad movie.

That does not make it a bad movie.

No, the reasons I pointed out make it a bad movie.

Your arguments for why you think it is objectively bad are pretty weak and unconvincing.

Well, I'm not trying to convince you it's a bad movie or that you shouldn't like it. It's just a bad movie, regardless of how much you like it. You are free to like it. I'm not going to try to convince you not to.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Hells to the yes! They haven't shown who's gonna be the chick sidekick but you know she's gonna have a quality pair of acting talents and a nice, juicy on screen presence!

I'm sure she will. Actually, i think they'll have two of them this time around. One will be Maky-Mark's daughter in the movie, and the other his love interest. Double the female talent also means double the Baysplosions.

It's there throughout the movie.

Could you give an example?

 

[Bedrockgames]

Meh, he effectively killed her. I guess you could say that knowing that, in part, opened him up to his evil side, though. It's just a sharp jump from loving man to 'dood searching for sperm receptacle/baby oven' especially considering the feelings he had for Kay beforehand.
.

It is a very important distinction. In one case his actions lead to her death but he has no desire for her to die and loves her. In the other case, if he had actually killed her, then he wants her to die for no reason and doesnt love her. One scenario makes sense, the other doesnt.

I think throughout the movie michael's affection for Kay is that she represents a kind of American normality he desires, but even in the beginning if the film he is somewhat cold with her compared with how he dealsf wwith apollonia. I dont think it is a sharp jump, especially since there is a nearly two year gap between the events. One woman he loved. They shared a culture and she knew and accepted what he was. With kay it is entirely different, she can never accept what he is. She is a prop to him. Another theme of the movie is immigrant identity and assimilation and his relationship with the two different women is where a lot if that plays out.