D&D 5E Official D&D Basic Discussion Thread

[Venthrac]

Just my opinion, of course, but I think I preferred the 4E 10-minute short rest to the 5E hour-long short rest. In fact, these abilities that require a short rest before they can be used again have the distinct feeling of 4E's encounter powers.

 

[mips42]

The problem some see isn't with hit dice -- it's with other things that recover after a short rest and can be immediately used for benefit and then there should be nothing preventing characters from taking another short rest. The poster child is the Fighter healing ability Second Wind.

So Fighters can recover all hit points without resorting to using hit dice using (multiple) short rests.

Maybe it's just me but, the way I read Second wind,

You have a limited well of stamina that you can draw on to protect yourself from harm. On your turn, you can use a bonus action to regain hit points equal to 1d10 + your fighter level.
Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again.

With the way it's talking about "your turn" and "Bonus Action" it makes me think Second Wind is a during-combat-only thing and you have to rest before you can use it in combat again.
So you get in a fight, use second wind *during* the fight, take a short rest to use a hit dice and recover your Second Wind ability but can't use Second Wind again until you get in your next fight.
That's how I read it, anyways.

 

[Nagol]

Maybe it's just me but, the way I read Second wind,
it's a during-combat-only thing and you have to rest before you can use it in combat again.
So you get in a fight, use second wind *during* the fight, take a short rest to use a hit dice and recover your Second Wind ability but can't use Second Wind again until you get in your next fight.
That's how I read it, anyways.

It's how you read it. Certainly no such limits are placed on the ability.

Would you prevent a Fighter from using it if the combat ended before his next action, but the player claims he was intending to use it?
How about over the next minute as the party discusses what to do next or negotiates who gets what healing "OK Bob, give the cure to the Wizard, I'll use my Second Wind" ?
Would you prevent a Fighter from using it just as he kicks in a door expecting a fight?
Would you limit the heal portion to only damage received this combat? If any answer is no to any of the above then using it out of combat is a natural extension. If the answer is yes to any of the above, the ability is more constrained than written.

 

[drjones]

So Fighters can recover all hit points without resorting to using hit dice using (multiple) short rests.

Is this ghost of a horse still being flogged?

The only way this would happen is if the DM and all the players want it to happen, in which case who cares? The only thing that needs to be done to 'solve' this terrible problem is if Mr. Fighter says he is taking a second rest the DM says "Ok, your first rest continues for another hour. You do not regain any abilities. Would you like to take a long rest or continue adventuring?"

 

[Nagol]

Is this ghost of a horse still being flogged?

The only way this would happen is if the DM and all the players want it to happen, in which case who cares? The only thing that needs to be done to 'solve' this terrible problem is if Mr. Fighter says he is taking a second rest the DM says "Ok, your first rest continues for another hour. You do not regain any abilities. Would you like to take a long rest or continue adventuring?"

LOL, so the Fighter and group say "Let's go!", walk 25 feet further (thus ending the short rest as per the rules since they weren't resting, eating, or reading) and THEN sit back down to 'rest' from the arduous walk.

Now the DM does have the option to ask the group to not be Richards, but I do understand why some would prefer the ability to be worded differently so the DM doesn't have to be a Richard either.

 

[mips42]

It's how you read it. Certainly no such limits are placed on the ability.

Would you prevent a Fighter from using it if the combat ended before his next action, but the player claims he was intending to use it?
How about over the next minute as the party discusses what to do next or negotiates who gets what healing "OK Bob, give the cure to the Wizard, I'll use my Second Wind" ?
Would you prevent a Fighter from using it just as he kicks in a door expecting a fight?
Would you limit the heal portion to only damage received this combat? If any answer is no to any of the above then using it out of combat is a natural extension. If the answer is yes to any of the above, the ability is more constrained than written.

As Second Wind is borrowed from 4e and the 4e version states "Once per Encounter: You can use your second
wind once per encounter and can use it again after
you take a short rest or an extended rest." I think the version I stated is close to what was intended.
However, it is indeed subject to interpretation. There may be clarification coming from WOTC. We'll see.
(Borrowing the 4e text, my answers as DM as far as preventing use would be:

Would you prevent a Fighter from using it if the combat ended before his next action, but the player claims he was intending to use it?

Prevented, you are not in combat.

How about over the next minute as the party discusses what to do next or negotiates who gets what healing "OK Bob, give the cure to the Wizard, I'll use my Second Wind" ?

Prevented, you are not in combat.

Would you prevent a Fighter from using it just as he kicks in a door expecting a fight?

Prevented, you are not in combat. (after initiative is rolled, go for it)

Would you limit the heal portion to only damage received this combat?

No limit, damage is damage.
Is it RAW, maybe not. But there ya go.)

 

[Nagol]

As Second Wind is borrowed from 4e and the 4e version states "Once per Encounter: You can use your second
wind once per encounter and can use it again after
you take a short rest or an extended rest." I think the version I stated is close to what was intended.
However, it is indeed subject to interpretation. There may be clarification coming from WOTC. We'll see.
(Borrowing the 4e text, my answers as DM as far as preventing use would be:
Prevented, you are not in combat.
Prevented, you are not in combat.
Prevented, you are not in combat. (after initiative is rolled, go for it)
No limit, damage is damage.
Is it RAW, maybe not. But there ya go.)

I thought Encounter powers could be used effectively once per 5 minutes in 4e? Otherwise Fey Step just grew a big new limit...

 

[mips42]

Is this ghost of a horse still being flogged?

The only way this would happen is if the DM and all the players want it to happen, in which case who cares? The only thing that needs to be done to 'solve' this terrible problem is if Mr. Fighter says he is taking a second rest the DM says "Ok, your first rest continues for another hour. You do not regain any abilities. Would you like to take a long rest or continue adventuring?"

You are quite right sir. The players can only "abuse" a rule if the DM allows it.
Remember rule zero.

 

[mips42]

I thought Encounter powers could be used effectively once per 5 minutes in 4e? Otherwise Fey Step just grew a big new limit...

I don't currently remember if Fey step was an encounter power or not, so my honest answer is "maybe".
EDIT: in 4e Fey Step IS an encounter power. RAW state that: "You can use encounter powers many times during a day of adventuring, but you must rest a few minutes between each use, so you can use them once per encounter". Also "A short rest allows you to renew your encounter powers and spend healing surges".
Also also "If you use and encounter power (such as healing) during a short rest, you need another short rest to renew it so you can use it again". So, THIS is where the idea of "spamming" short rests comes from. Didn't allow it in 4e, wouldn't in 5e.
Also also also, The definition of a short rest has changed in 5e so that affects how often "Encounter Powers" can be used. If there were "Fey Step" in 5e (AND it didn't state otherwise), I would default to same interpretation. Use in combat, short or long rest, use again.

However, we were discussing Second Wind and how it *could* be interpreted.
I gave you my way, yours appears to be different and that's okay. If I play in your game and you say all the things that I would prevent are okay, then that's your game and I'll either play that way or not play. Your game, your rules.
I would just ask that, if you play in my game, you give me the same courtesies and play the rules as *I* do.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

on one hand no good rule should ever require DM intervention in less it is spelled out. (a rule that says IF A then B or If C then D would be fine) in this case there is a rule so open to interpretation that at least 4 different idea's have been posted in this same thread...

on the other hand I find it hard to believe that there is someone out there that is BOTH old school enough to hate the idea of second wind AND Dislikes rule 0, AND can't handle this at the table... if such a group exsists it must be an awfully small part of that 3 part vein diagram...

I still hope there will be diel and mods called out in the DMG (or soon comeing another splat) for lasting wounds, longer and shorter rests (both long and short) and modified healing...