D&D 5E Hoard of the Dragon Queen - a solid D effort.

[Pseudopsyche]

The dragon attack was tense (the DM really sold his "random" breath weapon targets) and when our monk critted with his trinket ("ancient arrow of elvish make ") we really believed we'd legitimately driven off the dragon.

You did legitimately drive off the dragon. As written, the dragon has very little invested in the attack on Greenest, and it explicitly does not consider tangling with adventurers part of the deal.

The dragon at least believes that this is a sandbox adventure. Upon contact with a fellowship of four or five ragtag humanoids from different races and with eclectic gear, it can't be 100% certain it's not on the wrong end of a not-level-appropriate encounter. With literally nothing to gain by fighting, it takes off.

I'd also like to point out that the adventure as written does not force the PCs to engage the dragon. As written, if left alone, it will continue to harass the town a while longer and than wander off, its shock-and-awe role complete.

Your mileage/DM may vary.

 

[Pseudopsyche]

Ah, I see... hmm I think I'd be ok if he wasn't plot protected but was such a high level that there was only a slim chance he could be defeated... and then notes on how to substitute if he was killed by the PC's...

I really do wonder if we're all looking at the same adventure. In my copy, it provides multiple options to the DM if the PCs somehow manage to defeat him. One of them is that his minions drag him off to revive him. Another is that a different half-dragon shows up in the later episode. The outcome is explicitly not pre-ordained.

 

[keterys]

I really do wonder if we're all looking at the same adventure. In my copy, it provides multiple options to the DM if the PCs somehow manage to defeat him. One of them is that his minions drag him off to revive him. Another is that a different half-dragon shows up in the later episode. The outcome is explicitly not pre-ordained.

In both cases, the adventure is not changed by the work of the PCs. That's the objection, really.

 

[Razuur]

I liked it.

Wow, there is a lot of vitriol in the review and comments.

I liked the adventure. It was intentionally generic to make it portable. I could really run this and in FR, Dragonlance, or any other high magic setting. I kept thinking how it was targeted at a newbie, and if I was new - it would show me how to set up adventures and link them into campaigns.

I don't understand the comments about spending hours converting or adding the details - we must GM differently. Adding stuff is fun for me. As a GM, would I add more? Absolutely. Run some things differently? Absolutely. But then both things can be said of every adventure I have ever run. And frankly that is part of the fun of published adventures. They give you a great framework and you take that and make them yours. This adventure really got out of the way on some of those details - I see it as a feature.

I really liked Phandelver, and I like this to. Enough that I will be purchasing the second half. I want WOTC to make all different kinds of adventures, campaigns, and adventure paths - not follow a rigid formula. So far the two adventure releases do that. I think it does what it was designed to do.

An interesting point (that probably says more about me than the adventure) is that becasue of it, I went out and purchased the Neverwinter 4e book for some more details on FR as I haven't played it since the grey box. It is now the only 4e book I have. If it was me, I would have release a version of this along side the adventure, but they have been really focused on the 5e rules. So their strategy makes sense. I just want to spend more money I guess. I get this way when I get excited about something. And 5e has me excited.

Cheers.

 

[Thaumaturge]

You did legitimately drive off the dragon. As written, the dragon has very little invested in the attack on Greenest, and it explicitly does not consider tangling with adventurers part of the deal.

The dragon at least believes that this is a sandbox adventure. Upon contact with a fellowship of four or five ragtag humanoids from different races and with eclectic gear, it can't be 100% certain it's not on the wrong end of a not-level-appropriate encounter. With literally nothing to gain by fighting, it takes off.

I'd also like to point out that the adventure as written does not force the PCs to engage the dragon. As written, if left alone, it will continue to harass the town a while longer and than wander off, its shock-and-awe role complete.

Your mileage/DM may vary.

I've seen the dragon combat misconstrued (in my opinion) a number of times.

My take on the dragon, as I have stated before, is that he is like any of us dutifully attending a company picnic. The PCs landing a crit or a little bit of damage is like one of us (at said picnic) sitting on an anthill. The damage is fairly insignificant, but we already didn't want to be there. And it makes a great excuse for leaving. No one will outright blame us for going. Yes, we could take our wrath out on the ants, but why? We just want to leave. And all ants look the same to us. These could be just house ants, or they could be bulldog ants. It's just not worth it to find out.

My plan, when I run this tomorrow, is to have the dragon grumbling to himself the whole time. The PCs who speak draconic will hear snippets of things like "I wasn't even supposed to be here today". (Probably not actually a laugh line, though).

And if the characters (somehow) manage to defeat the half-dragon, just remove him from Episode 3. He's not the big boss of that episode. I'm not sure it'll make a huge difference to the outcome.

(Thaumaturge).

 

[Sacrosanct]

Wow, there is a lot of vitriol in the review and comments.

I liked the adventure. It was intentionally generic to make it portable. I could really run this and in FR, Dragonlance, or any other high magic setting. I kept thinking how it was targeted at a newbie, and if I was new - it would show me how to set up adventures and link them into campaigns. .

It was also designed to have some railroad elements because it was designed for Adventure League play, and thus it had to make sure all players, regardless of what group they were part of, all had the same shared experiences. I don't think it's fair to criticize the game on those grounds because of that reason.

 

[ExploderWizard]

You did legitimately drive off the dragon. As written, the dragon has very little invested in the attack on Greenest, and it explicitly does not consider tangling with adventurers part of the deal.

The dragon at least believes that this is a sandbox adventure. Upon contact with a fellowship of four or five ragtag humanoids from different races and with eclectic gear, it can't be 100% certain it's not on the wrong end of a not-level-appropriate encounter. With literally nothing to gain by fighting, it takes off.

I'd also like to point out that the adventure as written does not force the PCs to engage the dragon. As written, if left alone, it will continue to harass the town a while longer and than wander off, its shock-and-awe role complete.

Your mileage/DM may vary.

So really, regardless of what the PCs do, the dragon flies around a bit, roasting a few npcs then flies away.

That seems to me, much like a videogame intro, that has no impact on actual game play. The reasoning for its inclusion in the video game, is a cool intro scene to show off awesome graphics.

In a tabletop environment, there is no purpose.

 

[Thaumaturge]

So really, regardless of what the PCs do, the dragon flies around a bit, roasting a few npcs then flies away.

That seems to me, much like a videogame intro, that has no impact on actual game play. The reasoning for its inclusion in the video game, is a cool intro scene to show off awesome graphics.

In a tabletop environment, there is no purpose.

The dragon doesn't target the PCs at first...Adventurers who happen to get caught in the area make normals saving throws and take standard damage...Bear in mind that the dragon's breath weapon will kill a 1st-level character outright, so be sure to demonstrate its destructive power to the players before turning the dragon against the party.

If you can die before saving in a video game intro, then yes. It's like that.

I think the purpose of the encounter is to be a tense "we are so out of our league" moment. But the PCs can die. Their actions count. If they ignore it, the dragon kills a bunch of people and then gets bored. If they aren't smart and safe about how they drive it off, they die. It's just the dragon doesn't unleash its full might.

Thaumaturge.

 

[jrowland]

I think the review is fair, but as a counterpoint, I think the reviewer is looking at it through the lens of 3E/4E (and other like-era rpgs) rather than either an old school eye or new/fresh eye.

Yes, it is a railroad, and the reviewer acknowledges that as a necessary evil. But its an open railroad. It's generic-ness is a compromise to include sandbox-style play.

*puts on old grognard curmudgeon hat* "You're supposed to make the adventure yours you silly kids!" *removes hat*

So here we are seeing in real time the divergence of old school, make the adventure mine style of DMing (with the successful play stories and positive reviews) with the do all the work for me and let get right into the fun style of DMing. Neither is better than the other, but one is more fitting for DMs at certain points in the lives.

If you are a DM that needs a lot of prep time but don't have it and/or you are not quick on your feet at the table, this adventure may fall flat in your hands.

If you don't need a lot of prep time or you have the time or you are quick on your feet, this adventure may very well shine in your hands.

Its as simple as that.

 

[Astrosicebear]

If you can die before saving in a video game intro, then yes. It's like that.

I think the purpose of the encounter is to be a tense "we are so out of our league" moment. But the PCs can die. Their actions count. If they ignore it, the dragon kills a bunch of people and then gets bored. If they aren't smart and safe about how they drive it off, they die. It's just the dragon doesn't unleash its full might.

Thaumaturge.

And like all scripted videogames, the NPCs ignore the fact that you and your friends stood there and watched soldiers being burned alive, possibly roasting marshmallows over their corpses. But after the dragon flies away its all, "You must help us! Again!"

Basically, if Rise of Tiamat and followups are also Encounters based, the WOTC adventures are going to drive the 3PP adventure market through the roof.