D&D 5E The Case for a Magic Item Shop?

[Leatherhead]

Changing the subject slightly, I think that "goggles" are a totally stupid type of magic item for a medieval world. This isn't Splinter Cell. A ring or necklace that grants the same benefit would be more in keeping, IMO.

Apparently, goggles were around in the 14th century, and possibly before that depending on what you mean by "goggles"

 

[Elf Witch]

Again, note that the entire group was stripped of their equipment.

Try that scenario again, but, this time, only your character loses all her equipment for the next six sessions.

Do you have the same amount of fun?

Well, true, it is only perception checks that rely on sight. But, trying to scout by sound and touch is a very, very bad idea.



This I agree with.




Yup, and as usual, it's the automatic presumption that the player has to be THE superstar. Any problem at the table is automatically the player's fault and DM's are paragons of virtue and never, ever the cause of the problem. Note how everyone should contribute INCLUDES the DM. Which means when a player tells you he isn't having fun, it's your job as the DM to fix that. Telling the player to suck it up is a toxic solution.

It would be much, much more useful if DM's would actually take some responsibility once in a while for causing problems at the table.

And his posts have clearly reflected a viewpoint that a number of other participants on these boards have been agreeing with - sometimes you face adversity and have to adapt to the situation rather than force the situation to adapt to your build and/or complain about the DM. It's not always the DM's fault if the players aren't having fun - sometimes it really is the fault of the player who refuses to accept anything but one preferred solution.

Like I said before. I believe that if any of your players is sitting at the table and not having a good time, you have failed as a DM. And I certainly never want to play with a DM who feels that a player's enjoyment of the game is less important that maintaining some bizarre notion that setting is more important than people enjoying the game.

Hey, to each his own. If you enjoy this sort of thing, knock yourself out. Me, I'll play in games where the people sitting at the table having a good time is the most important consideration.

There was a wizard who lost his spellbook that was the harshest loss. I played a sorcerer and we had a druid and a cleric we were able after doing some scouting to replace our lost components. The druid made staffs for everyone and I cast mage armor on the fighters if we had combat. But the wizard was really hosed plus he had lost a leg and was crippled. We had no way to help with that until we got home. But he didn't whine about it he knew that choosing to play a wizard meant being dependent on a spellbook which can be lost or destroyed.

Now the DM was not a total ratbastard the wizard belonged to a guild and part of that was keeping a back up spellbook safe in the guild. So the player knew this was not a permanent thing.

And the DM didn't take our toys we chose to run and leave them instead of facing combat in the arena which we knew we had a chance of living through.

I have played a human stuck in the underdark we only had a few scrolls of darkvision which we saved until we needed them. To be stealthy the humans in the party were pared with those who had darkvision and they guided us. And we had a plan that if we were attacked one of the humans carrying a sunrod would open it and give us light. It is called working together as team.

This player has said that he does not want to find magic items in treasure because that is cheesy he wants a magic item shop so he is tying the DMs hands here. Again you are blaming the DM without holding the player to any responsibility for their fun.

As I said before maybe this part of the adventure he does not get to scout that does not totally nerf his abilities. In combat a hooded lantern opened would allow him to see and be able to be as effective as he would normally be.

I would also point out that many people have come up with solutions and they have all been shot down by the OP who seems to only want the freedom to buy magic items.

I totally agree that if a player is not having fun the DM should work with the player to solve the problem but that solution is not always exactly what the player may want. I have seen players like this OP seems to be that if they don't get eactly what they want then nothing else will be good enough that is also toxic.

So what you are saying is if one player at a table can't find away to have fun that is the failure of the DM? What about the player taking some responsibility and help themselves have fun?

A player who hates role playing who is playing at a table full off role players may be very unhappy but that is not the DMs fault that is the player for not realizing he is not a good fit. There are a lot of reasons why a player may not be having fun that has nothing to do with the DM.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Someone's been making assumptions all through this thread, but, it isn't me. I've not made a single comment about the OP's DM. The worst thing I've said about anyone is that a DM who ignores an unhappy player is a bad DM. I guess that's a disputable point, maybe. I certainly feel that way, but, apparently that's an opinion that isn't shared.

I'm going to disagree with that point already. It's good to try to keep players happy. When they ask for unreasonable things, however, you can't give it to them or they'll expect the same thing again and again.

I already have a player in one of my games who is playing a halfling rogue. They are VERY annoyed that halflings don't have dark vision and first session they asked me how their character could acquire it. I told them that there are some spells that can give it to you and there are some magic items that can do it. Or you could become a Warlock. Other than that, if you don't have it, you'll just have to make up for it by using all your other benefits. Either that or if she wanted to remake her character as a race that had Darkvision, I'd be ok with that as well. She flat out refused...said she wanted to be a halfling but wanted darkvision. She started searching for Goggles of Night everywhere she went(at level 1). Then, when she didn't find them immediately complained about it. I told her magic items were fairly rare and it was unlikely she'd just find them laying around. Then she asked if it was possible to remove the eyes of creatures who had darkvision and replace her eyes with them. I said, maybe with some powerful magic but it was likely beyond anyone in the party currently. So, she's been collecting the eyes of every creature she kills with darkvision in her quest.

I still have no intention of actually giving her darkvision. To me, it feels like cancelling out the weakness of a race. I think every character should have a weakness...this one is the inability to see in the dark.

 

[MoonSong]

I'm going to disagree with that point already. It's good to try to keep players happy. When they ask for unreasonable things, however, you can't give it to them or they'll expect the same thing again and again.

I already have a player in one of my games who is playing a halfling rogue. They are VERY annoyed that halflings don't have dark vision and first session they asked me how their character could acquire it. I told them that there are some spells that can give it to you and there are some magic items that can do it. Or you could become a Warlock. Other than that, if you don't have it, you'll just have to make up for it by using all your other benefits. Either that or if she wanted to remake her character as a race that had Darkvision, I'd be ok with that as well. She flat out refused...said she wanted to be a halfling but wanted darkvision. She started searching for Goggles of Night everywhere she went(at level 1). Then, when she didn't find them immediately complained about it. I told her magic items were fairly rare and it was unlikely she'd just find them laying around. Then she asked if it was possible to remove the eyes of creatures who had darkvision and replace her eyes with them. I said, maybe with some powerful magic but it was likely beyond anyone in the party currently. So, she's been collecting the eyes of every creature she kills with darkvision in her quest.

I still have no intention of actually giving her darkvision. To me, it feels like cancelling out the weakness of a race. I think every character should have a weakness...this one is the inability to see in the dark.

But you still plan to do it at some point right? right?

 

[KarinsDad]

But you still plan to do it at some point right? right?

Maybe a PC spell caster can cast Darkvision on the halfling. I'm with MO on this one. Don't just give her the googles. Ever. At best, allow her to acquire such an item by her explicitly getting an NPC to craft it for her, or for her to go quest for it. I really could not imagine a player wanting darkvision so bad that she would ask if she could remove the eyes of a darkvision creature and replace her PC's own eyes with them. That is so weird that someone would ask a DM that.

 

[Paraxis]

Maybe a PC spell caster can cast Darkvision on the halfling. I'm with MO on this one. Don't just give her the googles. Ever. At best, allow her to acquire such an item by her explicitly getting an NPC to craft it for her, or for her to go quest for it. I really could not imagine a player wanting darkvision so bad that she would ask if she could remove the eyes of a darkvision creature and replace her PC's own eyes with them. That is so weird that someone would ask a DM that.

And this is why there should be magic item shops. Why feel so antagonistic towards your players and their characters. Just let them trade some gold for the item or add it to a treasure reward.

 

[Elf Witch]

And this is why there should be magic item shops. Why feel so antagonistic towards your players and their characters. Just let them trade some gold for the item or add it to a treasure reward.

Because there is a reason why certain races don't have certain things and many of us feel that handing out magic items to take away every disadvantage is not something we want in our game. I feel this way as player as well. I hate the whole magic item shop. Higher magic items should be part of a quest or finding and paying a wizard to make it for you.

I certainly think it is an issue when players start complaining about a disadvantage at first level.

 

[Elf Witch]

I'm going to disagree with that point already. It's good to try to keep players happy. When they ask for unreasonable things, however, you can't give it to them or they'll expect the same thing again and again.

I already have a player in one of my games who is playing a halfling rogue. They are VERY annoyed that halflings don't have dark vision and first session they asked me how their character could acquire it. I told them that there are some spells that can give it to you and there are some magic items that can do it. Or you could become a Warlock. Other than that, if you don't have it, you'll just have to make up for it by using all your other benefits. Either that or if she wanted to remake her character as a race that had Darkvision, I'd be ok with that as well. She flat out refused...said she wanted to be a halfling but wanted darkvision. She started searching for Goggles of Night everywhere she went(at level 1). Then, when she didn't find them immediately complained about it. I told her magic items were fairly rare and it was unlikely she'd just find them laying around. Then she asked if it was possible to remove the eyes of creatures who had darkvision and replace her eyes with them. I said, maybe with some powerful magic but it was likely beyond anyone in the party currently. So, she's been collecting the eyes of every creature she kills with darkvision in her quest.

I still have no intention of actually giving her darkvision. To me, it feels like cancelling out the weakness of a race. I think every character should have a weakness...this one is the inability to see in the dark.

I have to give props for the player's creativity. I would use it in game I would have a powerful evil mage or cleric tempt the player by offering them the gift of darkvision.

 

[KarinsDad]

Because there is a reason why certain races don't have certain things and many of us feel that handing out magic items to take away every disadvantage is not something we want in our game. I feel this way as player as well. I hate the whole magic item shop.

Why exactly do you hate it?

I find it implausible that they would not exist. Not necessarily as a shop per se, more like back alley deals. Magic items are worth a lot in a D&D campaign setting. Anything that is worth a lot should have commerce surrounding it. Not doing so seems bizarre.

The reason it would often be back alley deals is due to the value of the items. A shopkeeper, shy of being in a large protected city, might not be able protect himself from thieves and other nefarious NPCs.

I equate this to real world weapons. In the U.S., most adult Americans can buy handguns, rifles, and shotguns (i.e. +1 daggers, swords, bows). They cannot acquire fighter jets or tanks or even AK47s or dynamite. At some point, society says "enough is enough" for weapons.

But, there is a black market in the real world for the more powerful weapons.

The same type of economics should apply to a D&D world. +1 weapons, armors, and common items like bags of holding should be available. Expensive maybe, but available.

The more rare and valuable items should only be purchasable from special unique merchants who deal solely in high end goods, or via a black market.

There is also a lot of roleplaying potential for having an NPC that the players go to for high end items. Such a PC has magic item crafting and trading connections, but might require PCs to go on quests to gain components or whatever. This also allows for a reoccurring NPC that the PCs might start liking and wanting to be protective of (i.e. a reoccurring ally).

Higher magic items should be part of a quest or finding and paying a wizard to make it for you.

Or even crafted by a PC spell caster at higher levels.

I certainly think it is an issue when players start complaining about a disadvantage at first level.

Agreed.

 

[Tony Semana]

Someone's been making assumptions all through this thread, but, it isn't me. I've not made a single comment about the OP's DM. The worst thing I've said about anyone is that a DM who ignores an unhappy player is a bad DM. I guess that's a disputable point, maybe. I certainly feel that way, but, apparently that's an opinion that isn't shared.

But, but... You're the one jumping up and down for the player's right to have fun! how it's so bad to have his 'shtick' taken away by... well, that would be the OP's DM right?? Who else would you be talking about?

And in this specific case it seems that means solving the problem their way (give them magic shop not just the item in a treasure pile as you seem to be suggesting, he wants shops specifically) just so that they can get back to having fun. But now you seem to be saying it's not the OP's DM that is responsible IN THIS CASE for his unhappiness? or is it? Please clarify your opinion, based on everything you've said in this thread, about the OP's DM.