[Complete Divine] Radiant Servant of Pelor is too powerful.

[Michael Tree]

Legions of undead turn to smoke. Yeah, except that a cleric of Pelor that didn't take this class could do the same thing, just by taking Disciple of the Sun and the Sun and the Glory domains. The prestige class has an ability that just duplicates the disciple of the sun feat.

The disciple of the sun feat does let a cleric do extra greater turnings, but at a cost of two turn uses instead of one. That at least is giving something up for the power. A RSoP does it for free, 3+cha times per day (ie. on all his turn attempts except the ones from greater turning.) That's a significant difference.

IMO the PrC would be much better balanced if the martial weapons were removed, and the greater turning ability replaced with the Disciple of the Sun feat. It would still be significantly better than a cleric, but at least not grossly so.

 

[Michael Tree]

The D6 is a major powerloss. If you don't believe me, there are scads of ranger players who insited the new 3.5 ranger was seriously nerfed by going from a D10 to a D8.

Firstly, just because people complained about it doesn't make it true. There were also scads of peole who insisted even more vehenemtly that the mystic theurge was ridiculously overpowered, and experience has taught us that if anything it's slightly underpowered.

Second, the difference in hit dice is most noticiable at the very lowest levels, where one or two HP can make a big difference. At 1st level 10hp is significantly tougher than 8hp. But by 7th level, the earliest a cleric can take RSoP, one or two hit points make little or no difference.

 

[The Souljourner]

As I've said, I'm going with the assumption that martial weapon proficiency is a typo (well, likely a copy and paste mistake).

I also don't agree with the "look at how everyone complained about the ranger". Rangers have never been uber fighters except against their favored enemies. D8 hitpoints is *fine* for them. Hell, they're about 100 times better now than they were before. Now I actually really want to play one straight up through high levels.... can't say that about most any other core class.

Yes, starting at 7th level, getting d6 hitpoints is not the end of the world. You've already created a nice little base of hitpoints. However, it is still a drawback, and for what is generally a second string melee class, it's going from mediocre to poor in a category that is a bad thing to be low on.

Think of it this way, if d8 to d6 isn't that much, then d4 up to d6 isn't that much.... the RSoP is now as close to a wizard's hitpoints as a cleric's.

-The Souljourner

 

[billd91]

At the risk of resurrecting a thread that should probably not be touched, why does the RSoP have the martial weapon ability? Greyhawk flavor. According to GH lore, the Church of Pelor has been becoming more martial over the years, probably due to the influence of the Greyhawk Wars, including the Great Northern Crusade.
So, I think the power has more to do with capturing campaign flavor rather than class balance. Just thought I'd bring that up for your edification.

 

[Testament]

Not a combat cleric?! What are you people on?! GLORY DOMAIN people, GLORY DOMAIN. Take a look at its granted power, and then you'll see why undead turn to smoke. More importantly, they get Holy Sword as a spell.

Then take divine metamagic, quicken spell, and see the enemy die screaming. If they aren't undead, quickened holy sword and normal divine power in the first round. If they are undead, then you go blam.

It's the cleric plus. No real prerequisites, full clerical advancement for spells and turning, and huge gains. 1 HP a level is more than an acceptable tradeoff.

 

[Squire James]

My opinion is that the RSoP is overpowered, but not as much as it seems. I'd make 3 changes, one of which is more a fix of a personal dislike than a power imbalance:

1. I dislike mechanics that give a characters a whole bunch of "turning pools" of 3+Cha attempts, so I made a general House Rule that all turning abilities draw from a single pool of 3+Cha attempts, possibly modified by Extra Turning. The RSoP Greater Turning attempts count as regular turning attempts.

2. Given that Pelor's favored weapon isn't martial, I don't see why RSoP's should be given martial weapon proficiency. There seems to be no strong need for it.

3. My final test for a spellcasting PrC that allows full progression is: do the limitations the class forces you into even out with the advantages you would get over the base class? IMO, the answer here is still "no", though not by a huge degree. So I advise removing a single level of spell progression.

Then it's a question of which level gets the spell progression hit. First level is harsh, and level 10 would discourage class completion (especially given the rather weak "finishing ability"). I think good choices would be levels 3, 5, or 8 because they get pretty good abilities at those levels to compensate. I'd say level 5 is fair enough.

Another alternative is to nix spell progression at levels 3, 6, and 9, but compensate by having the Healing abilities work on all Healing spells the RSoP casts rather than just the domain spells. I hesitate to fool with the class to this degree, but I'd rather make a PrC's strengths and weaknesses extreme than mild. You give up a lot, but you gain a lot!

 

[SJPadbury]

I'd like opinions on the following 2 uses/abuses of the RSoP:

Craft Wand + Supreme Healing + Cure Critical Wounds in the RSoP's Domain Slot.
Since the Metamagic feats don't cause it to use a higher level slot, you can craft a wand that cures 4d8/2 +62 (Average of 71) assuming a 20th caster level.... Base price is 750*4*20=60000 GP or 30000 GP and 2400 XP to craft, as opposed to 750*9*20=135000 GP or 67500 GP and 5400 XP assuming there weren't a cap to wands in the first place!

The other one is Supreme Healing + Domain Spontanaity. When you use Domain Spontanaity, it's still a domain spell, right? So you can exchange a turn attempt to spontaneously cast a healing spell that is empowered and maximized, and you can use your domain slots to memorize your Sun or Glory spells, instead of saving them for Cures that you wouldn't have put there otherwise...

I realize I've probably missed something glaringly obvious in these tricks, and I'm tired, so please be gentle in your corrections.

-Steve

 

[Healbot13]

I played a Radiant Servant of Pelor with the Glory, Sun, and Healing domains.

It was the most powerful cleric I have ever seen.

Legions of undead turned to smoke. The other PCs never had to lift a finger against undead (except for the one super-high level Boss Undead).

When the Undead weren't around, the Cleric could heal with the best of them.

And every so often, this cleric would cast spells similar to other clerics (Bulls Strength, Flame Strike, Harm, etc.).

Giving access to Glory and full caster levels and full undead turning (enhanced), the Radiant Servant of Pelor is the most powerful cleric PRC of them all.

I completely agree, I am playing one as well and did everyone in this post forget about the Spontaneous Domain Caster Variant in PHB 2 on page 36, because that is what I did with my healing domain. I was weaker for the first few levels since I essentially cost myself a domain to have the spontaneous cure spell ability as being able to exchange my spells for healing domain spells. But I saw the potential. I never prepare a healing spell, and when I need one I just pick a spell at that level that I have prepared and then cast the heal spell from the domain, and as a RSoP, bam Empowered and Maximized healing spell every time. I am a major healbot, but my character is complete utility in his spell usage so I don't really mind. I am just saying though the people complaining that it is broken have missed this little detail which makes those problems so much worse in the long run.

 

[cavalier973]

I played a Radiant Servant of Pelor with the Glory, Sun, and Healing domains.

It was the most powerful cleric I have ever seen.

The cleric is so powerful he can bring threads back from the dead ten years later.

 

[Ranes]

The cleric is so powerful he can bring threads back from the dead ten years later.

I agree and was about to add: well resurrected, Healbot13, and welcome to the boards.