D&D 5E The 5E Art is Awesome

[JWO]

With cheesecake art, first of all it's the issue that people have already mentioned regarding how impractical it all is. I know it's a fantasy world but there's only so far I can suspend my disbelief. Secondly, it's the fact that it's so unbelievably biased towards satisfying the straight male gaze and objectifying and commercializing women's bodies. Yes, you get male characters who are drawn with their rippling torsos and thighs on display but invariably these are again drawn with the male gaze in mind, as a power fantasy (i.e., 'this is the powerful man you want to be like, he is an alpha male who gets more than his share of all these scantily clad women').

Feel free to bring out the SJW labels!

 

[JWO]

Oh yeah, with the diversity, it probably only feels forced because it's different to the status quo.

I don't see how diversity is an issue in D&D anyway, it's always been a tolkein-esque fantasy with elves, hobbits, dwarves and such, don't those count towards diversity? Don't we want those things and therefore, want diversity?

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic here...

 

[Li Shenron]

That's how I feel when I think about monks. You're fighting otyughs, and fire elementals, and black puddings, and you're going to try to touch them with your bare skin ON PURPOSE?

Bling!

On a tangent here, but this IS possibly my reason #1 to feel Monks always a bit out of place in D&D. More than the reason of being oriental/asian-inspired, I just can't easily imagine someone wanting to get in contact with many of the monsters. Humanoid monsters, beasts and dragons are ok, but not so much stuff that is supposed to be 'unholy' (like demons and devils) or filthy, or dangerous to the bare touch (oozes, many elementals), or all of them (undead). And this is why I immediately feel relieved when a Monk player chooses to use Monk weapons instead of bare hands and feet.

 

[Sacrosanct]

With cheesecake art, first of all it's the issue that people have already mentioned regarding how impractical it all is. I know it's a fantasy world but there's only so far I can suspend my disbelief. Secondly, it's the fact that it's so unbelievably biased towards satisfying the straight male gaze and objectifying and commercializing women's bodies. Yes, you get male characters who are drawn with their rippling torsos and thighs on display but invariably these are again drawn with the male gaze in mind, as a power fantasy (i.e., 'this is the powerful man you want to be like, he is an alpha male who gets more than his share of all these scantily clad women').

Feel free to bring out the SJW labels!

I won't bring out the label, but I think you're wrong. In fact, your assumption that any sexualization of anyone, male and female, is meant to cater to males is actually pretty sexist in itself. It assumes that women don't want or like to see sexy depictions of men, and that's flat out false. Heck, every time I walk by her damn computer I keep seeing her Charlie Hunnam screensaver

Re: the general topic, I think when you have all or most of the art cheesecake that's not a good thing, as realistic depictions are important. But I think cheesecake has it's place too. Different tastes and all that. Then again, as a fantasy game, a lot of things that are "realistic" are ignored. Do we really want every single depiction of a PC as one that is covered in scars and disfigurement from hundreds of battles?

 

[Sunseeker]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic here...

I'm not sure how I can be misunderstood. Complaining about people of different colors seems to be missing the point when the book is literally full of people of different species.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

In fact, your assumption that any sexualization of anyone, male and female, is meant to cater to males is actually pretty sexist in itself. It assumes that women don't want or like to see sexy depictions of men, and that's flat out false.

Yep.

That's one reason I don't like the phrase "the male gaze." Women spend just as much time looking at other people's bodies as do men. They tend to be a little bit better at hiding it, but they do it all the same.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Yep.

That's one reason I don't like the phrase "the male gaze." Women spend just as much time looking at other people's bodies as do men. They tend to be a little bit better at hiding it, but they do it all the same.

The thing is, there tends to be just one kind of man candy (for women or men) in fantasy art - the beefy muscle dude. Not everyone is into that - there's a reason Loki is more popular among women than Thor. Boy band members are softened and pretty'd up. Throw in some bishonen men and it's more equal AND broadens the appeal.

 

[JWO]

I'm not sure how I can be misunderstood. Complaining about people of different colors seems to be missing the point when the book is literally full of people of different species.

I was thinking more along the lines that Tolkien's diversity hardly counts when all you've got is white humans, white elves, white dwarves or white hobbits.

I won't bring out the label, but I think you're wrong. In fact, your assumption that any sexualization of anyone, male and female, is meant to cater to males is actually pretty sexist in itself. It assumes that women don't want or like to see sexy depictions of men, and that's flat out false. Heck, every time I walk by her damn computer I keep seeing her Charlie Hunnam screensaver

I probably shouldn't have used absolutist terms like 'invariably' but that's not what I was getting at at all. There's no doubt that women want to see sexy depictions of men and women and of course there are plenty pieces of art/media that cater to the female gaze but in geek culture, the majority of the cheesecake art is created with a straight male audience in mind. I'm not saying that there aren't women out there who are getting off on the torsos and thighs of the axe-wielding barbarians in our rulebooks but they're rarely drawn with that in mind.

 

[JWO]

The thing is, there tends to be just one kind of man candy (for women or men) in fantasy art - the beefy muscle dude. Not everyone is into that - there's a reason Loki is more popular among women than Thor. Boy band members are softened and pretty'd up. Throw in some bishonen men and it's more equal AND broadens the appeal.

There's a good comic strip involving Batman that covers this but I'm on my work computer and my internet access is limited (not sure why I can get onto ENworld to be honest).

 

[pickin_grinnin]

I probably shouldn't have used absolutist terms like 'invariably' but that's not what I was getting at at all. here's no doubt that women want to see sexy depictions of men and women and of course there are plenty pieces of art/media that cater to the female gaze but in geek culture, the majority of the cheesecake art is created with a straight male audience in mind. I'm not saying that there aren't women out there who are getting off on the torsos and thighs of the axe-wielding barbarians in our rulebooks but they're rarely drawn with that in mind.

So what?

Most RPG players are male. There are more female players in the hobby than in the past, but the hobby will probably always be one that primarily attracts males, no matter what they do with the art. Why not market to your customer base?

Take a look at publications that are primarily marketed to women (magazines, romance books, etc.). You see the same thing. There's nothing wrong or demeaning about it. People like to look at other people's bodies, and enjoy fantasy (in the broad sense).

For example, many years ago Cosmopolitan featured a "plus size" model on their cover. Their readers (overwhelmingly women) tore them up for it. They wanted to see women with bodies they considered to be attractive. Cosmopolitan never tried that again.