Are Drow considered "Fey".....? Why or why not?

[Tuzenbach]

It seems like the OP has their mind made up on what they feel is 'Fey'......

Nope. Still confused and seeking answers. Sorry.

 

[Celebrim]

D&D needs to be pushed towards what you're calling "the Socratic approach" (what I'm thinking is a "Scientific approach"). To not do so, IMHO, results in the "dumbing down" of the D&D culture. Just a bunch of nonsensical debates moving backwards and forwards without any substantial outcome. Much time and productivity tends to be wasted on confusion. There needs to be order made out of chaos.

Well, I have two responses for that.

The first is, "It's too late for that." You see, in the mean time while D&D was waiting around for its designers to start adopting a more scientific mindset, those of us with more scientific mindsets went ahead and made up our own definitions that depended on the particular backstories we imagined for or fiction. Of course, all of those different separate fictional world building events were as personal and diverse as could be imagined, so many of us have our own incompatible definitions that we don't desire to give up.

And the proof that it is too late for that was 4e. Fourth edition tried to do exactly as you suggest, and create a single coherent world myth that would be the default in play. The trouble is, it was just one guys take on that, and the rest of us that cared - being the arrogant nerdy DMs that we are - said, "You don't get to go redefining what 'fairy' means in my campaign world. Even Gygax didn't have that authority, and you sir are not Gygax."

And the second thing is, "This is a good thing."

You see, the goal of an RPG is not to have us all playing D&D in the same fictional universe. The goal of an RPG is to empower creative collaborative story telling. If D&D had only one fiction, then it would be ill suited to creating fiction in any universe but its own. Because D&D is largely setting agnostic, you can create all sorts of fictions with it that the designers never intended and couldn't imagine. All this chaos is in fact good. It is only through the blending of the order of rules and the chaos of imagination that we create great role playing games.

Can you tell that if I thought alignments were real, I'd consider myself a follower of, "Neutral Good"?

Dude, Orcs aren't "Fey" 'cuz they aren't born with innate magical powers.

Dude. Orcs are born with innate magical powers.

You see, Orcs are simply one of Tolkien's words for 'goblin' (proof is in 'The Hobbit'), and goblins as we know are actually a sort of fairy.

Indeed, Goblins in Tolkien's works do have innate magical powers, but before you can understand that you first have to understand 'magic'.

Do you know what 'magic' is? Tolkien did. Or at least, Tolkien knew what it wasn't and therefore what it had to be. And once you understand what Tolkien knew about magic you'll understand that the following statements are both true: "There is no magic in Tolkien's 'The Lord of the Rings'" and "Everything in Tolkien's 'The Lord of the Rings' is magic."

But I'll give you a few clues. In the beginning of 'The Hobbit', Tolkien says of the Hobbits: "There is little or no magic about them, except the ordinary everyday sort which helps them to disappear quietly and quickly when large stupid folk like you and me come blundering along, making a noise like elephants which they can hear a mile off." Or in other words, the Hobbits ability to be stealthy is 'magical', but of an 'ordinary everyday sort'. What does he mean by that?

I put it to you that he Goblins of The Hobbit and the Orcs of The Lord of the Rings have just as much magic and of a less ordinary and everyday sort. And for that matter, they are just as magical as Galadriel.

 

[Tuzenbach]

I'll tell you who's NOT "Fey" ...... The blue goblins, or 'Blues' from 3e. They are born with innate PSIONIC ability. And in my mind PSIONICS ARE NOT MAGIC!!! Therefore, 'Blues' should not be considered "Fey".....


Is there a word out there that describes a being born with innate Psionic Ability? Wait a minute..... Don't answer that. That should probably be a different thread.

 

[Tuzenbach]

Dude. Orcs are born with innate magical powers.

I just realized!!! I might be attempting to reason with the wrong person!!!!

 

[Tuzenbach]

But I'll give you a few clues. In the beginning of 'The Hobbit', Tolkien says of the Hobbits: "There is little or no magic about them, except the ordinary everyday sort which helps them to disappear quietly and quickly when large stupid folk like you and me come blundering along, making a noise like elephants which they can hear a mile off." Or in other words, the Hobbits ability to be stealthy is 'magical', but of an 'ordinary everyday sort'. What does he mean by that?

Yeah. I specifically remember reading this quote over the phone to a fellow D&Der ...... when we were both TWELVE years old ...... in an effort to justify my belief that Hobbits could turn invisible at will. Then I grew up.

 

[Celebrim]

I just realized!!! I might be attempting to reason with the wrong person!!!!

The same thought just occurred to me as well.

 

[Voadam]

I'll attempt to find this & read it. However, it it goes on about "crow people" with no discernible innate, magical ability, I'll not consider it a proper write-up of the Tengu. I've recently read too many legend/lore thingies from Japanese mythology to believe the Tengu are only silly bird-men without inborn magic.....

Kobold Quarterly 14. It is an ecology article for them specific to two game worlds, Golarion and Midgard.

 

[Voadam]

Dude, I'm looking for a Universal definition of "Fey" which is applicable to ALL editions, not just what is considered the "current" standard (5e for some peeps). From what I'm being exposed to, it's looking like there isn't one. IMHO, that has to change ..... and invariably WILL change!!!

Here are the definitions from 3e found in the srd:

Fey
Fey: A fey is a creature with supernatural abilities and connections to nature or to some other force or place. Fey are usually human-shaped. Fey are proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in their entries. Unless noted otherwise, fey have low-light vision.
Hit Die: d6
Attack Bonus: Total HDx1/2 (as wizard)
Good Saving Throws: Reflex and Will
Skill Points: +2 per extra HD
Feats: +1 per 4 extra HD

Here is from d20 Modern:

Fey

A fey is a creature with supernatural abilities and connections to nature or some other force or place. Fey are usually human-shaped. See Table: Fey for physical ability scores, recommended minimum Hit Dice, and damage based on size.

Hit Die: d6

Base Attack Bonus: 1/2 of total Hit Dice (see Table: Creature Saves and Base Attack Bonuses).

Good Saving Throws: Will

Skill Points: 3 x Int score, plus 2 points per Hit Dice beyond 1 HD

Feats: 1 + Int modifier (minimum 0), plus 1 feat per 4 Hit Dice beyond 1 HD


Fey share the following additional traits:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fey receives either Archaic Weapons Proficiency or Simple Weapons Proficiency as a bonus feat. Fey are proficient with any weapon mentioned in their entries. Fey noted for wearing armor gain the bonus feat Armor Proficiency with whatever type of armor they are accustomed to wearing (light, medium, heavy), as well as all lighter types.

Low-Light Vision (Ex): Most fey have low-light vision.

Here is from 3.5:

Fey Type

A fey is a creature with supernatural abilities and connections to nature or to some other force or place. Fey are usually human-shaped.

Features

A fey has the following features.
•6-sided Hit Dice.
•Base attack bonus equal to ½ total Hit Dice (as wizard).
•Good Reflex and Will saves.
•Skill points equal to (6 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

Here is from Pathfinder:

Fey

A fey is a creature with supernatural abilities and connections to nature or to some other force or place. Fey are usually human-shaped. A fey has the following features.
•d6 Hit Die.
•Base attack bonus equal to 1/2 total Hit Dice (slow progression).
•Good Reflex and Will saves.
•Skill points equal to 6 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for fey: Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Fly, Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nature), Perception, Perform, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Swim, Use Magic Device.

Traits: A fey possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).
•Low-light vision.
•Proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
•Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Fey not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Fey are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
•Fey breathe, eat, and sleep.

So those are mostly the same.

Elves (including drow) are not fey in those. Gnomes are not either. In Pathfinder gnomes have a background of having originated as fey but having moved to the world and being classified as humanoid gnomes now.

Gnomes trace their lineage back to the mysterious realm of the fey, a place where colors are brighter, the wildlands wilder, and emotions more primal. Unknown forces drove the ancient gnomes from that realm long ago, forcing them to seek refuge in this world; despite this, the gnomes have never completely abandoned their fey roots or adapted to mortal culture. As a result, gnomes are widely regarded by the other races as alien and strange.

In the 4e PH elves have the following text:

Fey Origin: Your ancestors were native to the Feywild, so you are considered a fey creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.

Eladrin who are elves with stronger ties to the feywild and arcane magic have identical text for mechanics.

I don't have the 4e MM or the 5e books on hand and they don't have srds so I'd have to look up their definition of fey separately to see if it is different.

 

[Tuzenbach]

Here's a VERY insightful list: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?215694-All-the-Different-Types-of-Fey



Mind you, it omits both Drow and Tengu, but it's nonetheless insightful!!!!

 

[Tuzenbach]

Elves (including drow) are not fey in those. Gnomes are not either. In Pathfinder gnomes have a background of having originated as fey but having moved to the world and being classified as humanoid gnomes now.....

Voadam, how are we defining "supernatural abilities".....? Is that akin to innate (inborn) spell abilities? If so, that's my argument for why the Drow might be considered "Fey".....


Thank You!!!