Turns out honesty isn't always the best policy

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

I agree it technically isn't patent trolling. But it is the closest thing in my mind. They bought the marketing rights to something that has been on the market forever and did so soley to milk it for a quick burst of revenue. It is the same mindset and business strategy.

I would assume that was his strategy. He is a former hedge fund manager. He is more interested in bringing in money than doing anything to help patients. Still, it's perfectly legal.

 

[Bedrockgames]

And yet, it's all perfectly legal. It might be unethical, but ethics don't matter in this case. It may raise the cost of healthcare in the U.S., but that doesn't matter either. He hasn't broken any laws.It's a complete abuse of power, and it's totally legal. He could have raised the price to $5,000 per pill, and it would still be legal. That's a problem that people should be getting mad at.
d.

That is a non-argument. It being legal doesn't mean we shouldn't say anything when someone tries to squeeze a broken system to make money of the sick. I'm all for putting pressure on him in the media to lower the price. No one is saying it isn't legal. No one is saying he should be arrested or charged.

People are saying it is unethical. Which it is. And they are saying it is bad for society, so we probably want to do something if this is that easy to pull off. Obviously that is the first step toward doing talking about reform to stop this kind of behavior.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I would assume that was his strategy. He is a former hedge fund manager. He is more interested in bringing in money than doing anything to help patients. Still, it's perfectly legal.

You keep saying that like it adds anything to the conversation. So what that its legal. Everyone acknowledges that it is. It is still unethical and has huge consequences for people who need the drug. In your mind what is the correct response? Just shrug?

 

[tomBitonti]

Wait, how is it unethical? He us doing exactly what the system encourages.

TomB

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

You keep saying that like it adds anything to the conversation. So what that its legal. Everyone acknowledges that it is. It is still unethical and has huge consequences for people who need the drug.

You say that as if it should matter. So what if it's unethical? Ethics don't matter. People die because they can't get this drug? So what? Countless people die because they can't get this drug, other life saving drugs, food, water, and countless other things. It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, his unethical behavior doesn't matter. The consequences of his unethical behavior don't matter. Maybe pointing out that it is legal doesn't add to the conversation, but neither does saying that it's unethical. The fact is, it is perfectly legal. He can do as he pleases. So what? Their anger and $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee.

In your mind what is the correct response? Just shrug?

Nope. I'm assuming you haven't read most of the other posts since you came late into this conversation. I've said it several times before. People should be getting upset with the politicians that allow this to continue to happen. You can complain about his unethical behavior until you're blue in the face, but that's not going to change anything. Now if you start pushing politicians on this, holding them accountable for doing nothing to fix this issue, you may just get the laws to change.

 

[Bedrockgames]

You say that as if it should matter. So what if it's unethical? Ethics don't matter. People die because they can't get this drug? So what? Countless people die because they can't get this drug, other life saving drugs, food, water, and countless other things. It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, his unethical behavior doesn't matter. The consequences of his unethical behavior don't matter. Maybe pointing out that it is legal doesn't add to the conversation, but neither does saying that it's unethical. The fact is, it is perfectly legal. He can do as he pleases. So what? Their anger and $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee.

Are you serious? His behavior matters a great deal to the peoples' whose lives are impacted by his choices. Yeah, I am not getting where your coming from at all. I guess will just have to move on. Whatever HS, I am starting to really my interactions with you in the past. I don't think we are going to make a lot of headway with this back and forth.

Nope. I'm assuming you haven't read most of the other posts since you came late into this conversation. I've said it several times before. People should be getting upset with the politicians that allow this to continue to happen. You can complain about his unethical behavior until you're blue in the face, but that's not going to change anything. Now if you start pushing politicians on this, holding them accountable for doing nothing to fix this issue, you may just get the laws to change.

I've seen what you said. But I don't think you are making a lot of sense. I am all for reforming the system and pressuring politicians do act. That still doesn't mean we should ignore his terrible behavior. It isn't a choice between one or the other. And public critiques do seem to be having an effect, since he has been issuing responses. I am rarely in favor of using shame or aggression, but when someone is doing something that can lead to people dying or have a huge impact on the health care system, I am all for people letting him know how they feel and pressuring institutions and companies to do what they can to make it hard for him to do business this way.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Wait, how is it unethical? He us doing exactly what the system encourages.

TomB

Doing what the system encourages isn't the foundation of ethics. He pursuing his own self interest and greed at the expense of individuals who may really need this medication and at the expense of an already busted health care system. He is raising the price of a drug that up until now was very affordable. Either people who need the drug won't get it, or will have to pay more than they ought to for it, or insurance companies will front the cost and everyone's rates will go up (while he profits).

 

[tomBitonti]

Doing what the system encourages isn't the foundation of ethics. He pursuing his own self interest and greed at the expense of individuals who may really need this medication and at the expense of an already busted health care system. He is raising the price of a drug that up until now was very affordable. Either people who need the drug won't get it, or will have to pay more than they ought to for it, or insurance companies will front the cost and everyone's rates will go up (while he profits).

Sure, it sucks to be one of the people that needs the medication.

But being ethical isn't the same as being nice.

So far, what I've heard as "unethical behavior" is really meaning "behavior which I think is mean", or perhaps "behavior of which I disapprove."

If the drug was being sold by a publicly traded company, where the board has a duty to achieve the corporate goals, and those were stated to be increasing dividends, then it would be unethical to *not* raise the price. Outside of an additional value, e.g., company reputation, or the possibility of triggering regulatory scrutiny, a board member would have a *duty* to raise the price.

Thx!
TomB

 

[Umbran]

So what? Why does he have to operate like the rest of the industry?

Let us return, for a moment, to the point this originated with - you said, "People get upset at this one guy because he is actually honest about how the drug industry works."

That isn't correct. What he did is *not* how the industry works. So, anger at him is *not* the same as anger at the industry, as you contend.

What he is doing is perfectly legal.

Irrelevant. Nobody here is saying he should be arrested. "Legal" doesn't mean "beyond reproach". People can be justifiably angry at perfectly legal actions.

Really, why are people focusing so much on a guy that is playing within the rules?

Because there is more to ethical and reasonable behavior than staying within the letter of the law.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Sure, it sucks to be one of the people that needs the medication.

But being ethical isn't the same as being nice.

So far, what I've heard as "unethical behavior" is really meaning "behavior which I think is mean", or perhaps "behavior of which I disapprove."

If the drug was being sold by a publicly traded company, where the board has a duty to achieve the corporate goals, and those were stated to be increasing dividends, then it would be unethical to *not* raise the price. Outside of an additional value, e.g., company reputation, or the possibility of triggering regulatory scrutiny, a board member would have a *duty* to raise the price.

Thx!
TomB

We could have a whole debate on ethics and what that means. Here I think people are labeling behavior that they think causes harm to society and its members to be the standard.

A company raising the price of a potentially lifesaving medication like that, that has been affordable for decades and decades, doesn't strike me as a good thing. Should any action that achieves corporate goals be acceptable and ethical? Particularly when they actions can be shown to create harm to the public and undermine a healthcare system that is already shaky? Sorry but part of this discussion is us trying to decide what sort of world we want to create for ourselves. If you want to live in a world where corporate revenue is the only measure of the good, I can't join you. I think there is a good in keeping medicine as affordable as possible. Most folks understand that putting a new drug on the market takes big investments and that means there will be a few years of prices being high. What people are having trouble understanding is why we're taking a medicine that has been affordable for a very long time and seeing the price skyrocket just because some company bought the marketing rights. That seems exploitative to me.