These examples are quite different from what I was attempting to describe originally then:
A situation where there is a choice presented and it has zero consequences.
Yes, that is Illusionism and best avoided.
These examples are quite different from what I was attempting to describe originally then:
A situation where there is a choice presented and it has zero consequences.
I see a virtue in this (though I'd never do it) in that it's honest.
If a gm is inexperienced or just really wants to run a module and the players have agreed to run that module, I think it's ok to go "Yeah that's not in the module". It's not ideal, but in a Participationistic situation (players are agreeing to a constricted scneario) then I can see all the players going "Ok, no problem"
I'm gathering from this discussion that a sandbox consists of the PCs in a sort of stasis bubble in which nothing happens outside of what they directly interact with, because if it did, then hey, it's a railroad plot that happened even though the players didn't wNt it to.
I have a question: by "choice" you mean the players know about the tower and intentionally avoid it, right? Because if the players do not know the dungeon is there at all, it does not exist in play. And as long as something (anything) does not exist in play, there a) cannot be a choice of the players about it which can be negated and b) it does not matter where the DM puts it into play.It matters in the following manner:
if you are going to negate the choice (ie put the tower in their path no matter which way the go) then it is better to have not offered that choice to begin with.
I'm gathering from this discussion that a sandbox consists of the PCs in a sort of stasis bubble in which nothing happens outside of what they directly interact with, because if it did, then hey, it's a railroad plot that happened even though the players didn't wNt it to.
The more important thing is whether the choice has any effect at all. If not: that's a waste of time.I have a question: by "choice" you mean the players know about the tower and intentionally avoid it, right? Because if the players do not know the dungeon is there at all, it does not exist in play. And as long as something (anything) does not exist in play, there a) cannot be a choice of the players about it which can be negated and b) it does not matter where the DM puts it into play.
Then why was the choice there at all? You're just wasting time.If the players make an uninformed choice, then I see no difference as to whether the DM placed the tower there before the game began, during game play because they thought it was cool, or rolled it randomly on a wildnerness encounter table.
Railroading happens whenever choice is removed, pleasant constraint or not. Railroading only becomes bad when it's unpleasant.
The more important thing is whether the choice has any effect at all. If not: that's a waste of time.
If the entire content of either choice is the same, the choice doesn't matter. If the tower is the ONLY thing there either way, it was a pointless choice.