I don't feel that way. I think you could take 3E WotC FR Books and place them next to the SCAG, and you could objectively prove it is a lower quality book. If you still have those old books, read both, really dig in and peruse an old WotC FR book and then read the SCAG. Then get back to me about their quality as far as the bang for the buck you got from each book. Look over the crunch and the fluff and compare them. Then tell me that they are equivalent. I'd love to see a true analysis.
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D&D 5E Escapist article on SCAG is Brutal.
- Thread starter gyor
- Start date
I don't feel that way. I think you could take 3E WotC FR Books and place them next to the SCAG, and you could objectively prove it is a lower quality book. If you still have those old books, read both, really dig in and peruse an old WotC FR book and then read the SCAG. Then get back to me about their quality as far as the bang for the buck you got from each book. Look over the crunch and the fluff and compare them. Then tell me that they are equivalent. I'd love to see a true analysis.
delericho
Legend
Yep. I think a lot of people really wanted it to be a full setting guide and so they convinced themselves that that was what it would be - even though WotC never said it was, and even though the preview of the table of contents made it even more clear. And so, unfortunately, when it was released and wasn't what they had convinced themselves it would be, they got angry. None of which is WotC's fault, nor the fault of the SCAG.
Not quite - if this book meets its sales goals but future similar books have their sales impacted as a result, then WotC may need to be concerned. Too soon to measure that, of course.
Kramodlog
Naked and living in a barrel
SCAG is the first Forgotten Realms book WotC has released in more or less 4 years. At 40$, it is normal that Realmsfans and people interested in the Realms expected it to be a quality book. Substantive in its update of the Realms (you know, 4 years without any), useful and... good.
But what WotC wanted to make a quick buck by doing a book that goes along with its disaster of a video game. And since the book wasn't related to any AP and no new video game is coming out, I'm not sure WotC will be making more FR books just because the FR needs more info. I wonder how sells are going with the review its getting.
But what WotC wanted to make a quick buck by doing a book that goes along with its disaster of a video game. And since the book wasn't related to any AP and no new video game is coming out, I'm not sure WotC will be making more FR books just because the FR needs more info. I wonder how sells are going with the review its getting.
hawkeyefan
Legend
I still have my FRCS from 3E and I love it. Still use it. My campaign is based largely around the FR setting at that point in the timeline...i.e. Shade Enclave hovers above Anauroch, the time of Troubles was twenty-ish years ago, and so on. I don't need another full fledged setting book.
Having said that, I still bought the SCAG. The reason is that I wanted 5E crunch for certain Realms specific ideas like Purple Dragon Knights and so forth. I also liked to read the fluff material, even though I'm essentially disregarding anything related to the Spellplague or Sundering. I may pick and choose some things from the newer era...the presence of dragonborn and things like that...but it'll be on a case by case basis.
What I think it excels at is as an introduction to the setting in a palatable way. My players don't follow the Realms as closely as I have at times. They'll find the book invaluable as a resource. If they need to know about a country or a god, they can read the entry in the SCAG. I just have to keep in mind that some things have changed compared to my version of the Realms. But hey, most f the book is written in an unreliable narrator type of tone...so anything that doesn't jibe can be explained away.
I think the value as an introduction is overlooked by folks who don't need an introduction to the Realms. Compared to the 3E era books, this book is less useful for you. That's fine...I understand why, and I respect that stance. But to say that it is objectionably so? That just seems wrong.
A few months ago, if someone new to the hobby came here and started a thread asking for a good source to understand the Forgotten Realms Setting....imagine the replies. People would be all over the person citing the sourcebooks and novels that they personally like. "You have to read the Avatar Trilogy" or "You have to have Faiths and Pantheons" and so on. It'd be an overwhelming amount of information that no new player would be able to properly parse.
Now however, we can simply advise "Pick up the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide" and that would be a sinple solution, requiring one book. The player could then proceed from there for further reading if they wanted.
So...putting the books side by side, I find that I like each just fine, for different reasons.
Corpsetaker
First Post
I wouldn't advise a new player to pick up SCAG. I would advise a new player to pick up the 3rd edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide because it has exactly everything you need to play in FR.
SCAG does not give enough information to play in a Forgotten Realms game if you are trying to play the setting as written or as close to written as possible. If 6 different people picked up SCAG then I would say each of those 6 people would have their own version of the world. This is fine if you are looking to homebrew but if you are going to homebrew then you could save a lot of money and just pick up a few of the older stuff on PDF and off you go.
There really is no actual use for SCAG. Wait long enough and I'm sure the mechanics will come out on a PDF.
Corpsetaker
First Post
Can you blame people? Wizards of the Coast have seen what happens with regards to Realms fans. The FR boards when from hopping to a virtual Ghost Town when 4th edition FR came around. The books bombed which shows the power of the fans out there. Once again the fans were ignored after telling Wizards what they wanted and were willing to give money for.
For a time it actually seemed as if Wizards were going to come around after the whole "Sundering/Reset" move but once again they think they know better than the fans.
hawkeyefan
Legend
My players absolutely disagree. They like the SCAG just fine, and find it very helpful. They find that its focus on the area with which most of their adventures are taking place to be nice. They like the organization of it and the layout.
My 3E FRCS sits right on the table next to it, and they generally reference the SCAG over it. We've only had 2 sessions since I got it, but that's how it's been so far.
So when you say that it has no use, what you mean is that you have no use for it. That's fine. But your blanket statement that it has no use is clearly wrong.
The FRCS is a great book if you want to run games in the Realms. But to just play? You simply do not need that amount of information. You need the basics. You need some in world perspective. You need a summary. The SCAG has all that.
I'd also point out that every game is a home brew. There are no two games taking place in an identical world at this point. My game is mine and yours is yours and the one down at the local FGS is theirs. The "6 different people having 6 different games" argument applies just as much to the FRCS.
From what I've seen, the fans have a pretty varied view and do not present the unified front that you seem to believe. You and I both seem to be fans...yet our stances are different.
They cannot please everyone. So instead, they decided to try and please the largest number of folks. You can argue that was a bad idea or that they're failing at it, and that's fine. But claiming they decided what to do despite the fans is incorrect.
delericho
Legend
No, indeed not. I've made that mistake often enough myself to understand it.
Sure, you could compare the FRCS to the SCAG, but you'd be comparing two very different books, each written to do different things.
The 3E FRCS was a 300 page behemoth overwritten by an extra 100 pages, which had to be cut before the book was printed.
It's job was to condense **all** prior Realmslore into one book while simultaneously updating the entire Realms to the current (at that time) game year, and to showcase the new (at the time) 3E rules throughout the book. This included the not yet completed Epic Level rules, and associates changes in campaign fluff.
This one-two punch was meant to carry fans of the Realms into 3rd Edition, as well as non-Realms fans hungry for new rules, and to win new fans to the setting.
The FRCS succeeded.
Note: at time all Realms sourcebooks were priced at a premium above their non-setting specific counterparts. Even so, the FRCS was underpriced.
The SCAG is not a campaign guide. It's job is not to provide an extensive overview of the entire Realms, but an adventurer's eye view of one region.
Like the FRCS, the mechanics in the SCAG are designed to reflect the Realms; they are not generic. But unlike the FRCS, the SCAG reaches out to the fan of other settings (and in so doing introduces the new gamer to worlds he or she may not even know about).
The 3E FRCS was a 300 page behemoth overwritten by an extra 100 pages, which had to be cut before the book was printed.
It's job was to condense **all** prior Realmslore into one book while simultaneously updating the entire Realms to the current (at that time) game year, and to showcase the new (at the time) 3E rules throughout the book. This included the not yet completed Epic Level rules, and associates changes in campaign fluff.
This one-two punch was meant to carry fans of the Realms into 3rd Edition, as well as non-Realms fans hungry for new rules, and to win new fans to the setting.
The FRCS succeeded.
Note: at time all Realms sourcebooks were priced at a premium above their non-setting specific counterparts. Even so, the FRCS was underpriced.
The SCAG is not a campaign guide. It's job is not to provide an extensive overview of the entire Realms, but an adventurer's eye view of one region.
Like the FRCS, the mechanics in the SCAG are designed to reflect the Realms; they are not generic. But unlike the FRCS, the SCAG reaches out to the fan of other settings (and in so doing introduces the new gamer to worlds he or she may not even know about).
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