D&D 5E Escapist article on SCAG is Brutal.

[Corpsetaker]

They cannot please everyone. So instead, they decided to try and please the largest number of folks. You can argue that was a bad idea or that they're failing at it, and that's fine. But claiming they decided what to do despite the fans is incorrect.

Largest number of what folks?

The problem is Wizards do not have numbers on "possible" new people who want a different Realms. They have taken a shot in the dark, like they did with 4th edition, hoping there are people out there who like their model of the Forgotten Realms which ties into their lesser release schedule. This has nothing to do with some large group of FR fans who are supposedly out there who want this emaciated Realms.

If this type of Realms was so popular then the boards over on the Wizards site would not have seen the hoards of fans leave. The 4th edition Realms was done this exact same way and it failed.

 

[Hussar]

Corpsetaker - is your issue that the coverage of the Sword Coast area isn't enough, or that it's not enough coverage of the entire Forgotten Realms?

 

[hawkeyefan]

The FRCS is great. But it's one of THE very best setting books of all time. I do encourage everyone to get one if you can.

I agree. It's a great book. I love it so much that I shifted my longstanding homebrew campaign to the Realms because of it. Hadn't been a huge Realms fan prior to that, despite checking out some of the novels and maybe a module or two.

Largest number of what folks?

The problem is Wizards do not have numbers on "possible" new people who want a different Realms. They have taken a shot in the dark, like they did with 4th edition, hoping there are people out there who like their model of the Forgotten Realms which ties into their lesser release schedule. This has nothing to do with some large group of FR fans who are supposedly out there who want this emaciated Realms.

If this type of Realms was so popular then the boards over on the Wizards site would not have seen the hoards of fans leave. The 4th edition Realms was done this exact same way and it failed.

Largest number of consumers. They are selling the book, so their goal is to sell to as many as possible. I can't say for sure, this is pure speculation on my part, but I am guessing that they decided it wasn't smart to market to the hard core audience only...people already invested in the Realms. They need to attract new players to te game, not just continue to cater to folks my age. In order to do that, they needed something of a clean slate....a jumping on point for folks who don't know the Time of Troubles from The Scouring of the Shire.

I hope that they are worried about a lot more than message boards when it comes to their market research, and I am sure that they are. Message boards don't necessarily mean anything. I don't know if it's fair to use 4th Edition as a basis of comparison for much. But I don't think that they tried the same thing with the Realms in 4th. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they do a full campaign guide and then they followed that with a player's guide? Aren't you complaining about the lack of a campaign guide now?

I find what they've released so far to be a nice balance of material from all editions, although I think it leans more toward the 2E/3E era. Which is when I really got on board, so I'm fine with that.

But that's just me. Others are not happy with it. I get that. I think you have valid points at times. I just think that they get lost when you go a bit too far and say that the book is useless, or that you can't even imagine why they made it. That kind of hyperbole just hurts your argument.

The book is not perfect. Nor is it useless.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

At the start of 4E, WotC said they would do a CS and PG for the Realms and that was it. They changed direction some years later with the release of the Neverwinter, Undermountain and Menzoberranzan sourcebooks.

The notion that 4E and the SCAG are shots in the dark is absurd on its face.

 

[Hussar]

I'd hazard a guess that people didn't hate the 4e FR books because the books themselves were necessarily bad. It's not like they were poorly edited or badly written or of less quality than other books. WotC is pretty darn good at producing high quality books.

The reaction to 4e FR was more due to the massive changes they tried to ram onto the setting that invalidated so many people's campaigns. It wasn't how the book was written that was the problem, it was what was written that was the problem.

That doesn't seem, as much, to be the issue here. No one seems to be complaining about the canon that is presented, more about how the canon presented only covers a part of the setting. But, my point is, it says that right on the cover of the book. I wouldn't expect a Sword Coast Adventurers Guide to talk about any other area of the setting other than the Sword Coast. Considering that we have three complete campaigns now, and likely a few more coming in the near future, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that most of the information is covering this area.

I also wonder if some or a lot of the material in this book comes from the Elemental Companion guide that was cancelled (er whatever) last year. IIRC, the class elements from the Elemental Companion were about on par with this book. I'm going from memory here, but, wasn't there like 20 or 30 pages of class material in the pdf? I'm wondering if the plan wasn't to have SCAG originally be the Elemental Companion, and then this book would expand on that book.

Thing is, we're a year (ish) after the Elemental Companion and people, after all this time, really were expecting a lot more from this book. Had the Elemental Companion book come out on time with Princes of Elemental Evil, complete with the setting material from SCAG and the the SCAG comes out now with expanded material, I wonder if people would be a lot more happy about the two books.

And, I wonder, perhaps, if we'll see more of these Companion Guides released with each (or maybe every other) AP in the future. Of course, this is pure speculation on my part and I know WotC doesn't dare say anything because people will take anything they say as a contractual guarantee. :/

 

[jadrax]

I also wonder if some or a lot of the material in this book comes from the Elemental Companion guide that was cancelled (er whatever) last year. IIRC, the class elements from the Elemental Companion were about on par with this book. I'm going from memory here, but, wasn't there like 20 or 30 pages of class material in the pdf? I'm wondering if the plan wasn't to have SCAG originally be the Elemental Companion, and then this book would expand on that book.

I have the play-test material for the Elemental Companion player material, there is no overlap between it and SCAG.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I'd hazard a guess that people didn't hate the 4e FR books because the books themselves were necessarily bad. It's not like they were poorly edited or badly written or of less quality than other books. WotC is pretty darn good at producing high quality books.

The reaction to 4e FR was more due to the massive changes they tried to ram onto the setting that invalidated so many people's campaigns. It wasn't how the book was written that was the problem, it was what was written that was the problem.

I think that's correct. They were really trying to change the setting. Hell, they merged the world with another. They removed whole swaths of land and replaced them with something new. The approach in the SCAG doesn't seem similar; it's goal seems to be reconciling all of te past editions in as straightforward a manner as possible.

I'd also add that using 4E books as a basis for comparison is also tough because of the system itself. I for one didn't buy any of the 4E Realms books because by the time they came out, I had already decided to stop playing that edition.

So you have the most controversial approach to the Realms in support of the most controversial edition of the game. Not a great combo.

 

[Corpsetaker]

Corpsetaker - is your issue that the coverage of the Sword Coast area isn't enough, or that it's not enough coverage of the entire Forgotten Realms?

My issue is that it claims to be a regional guide, just look at the title, but it also tries to be a general book which it ends up failing at both. Regional books should be going into heavy detail on specific areas, not give us short overviews of general "overall Realms" knowledge.

Butter over too much bread.