Militia and military relationship

[Janx]

I think that your armchair psychoanalyzing of people that have a different mindset than you without doing any research is a great way to reinforce your existing opinions. It plays directly into confirmation bias. Unless you're going to go out and talk to vets in militias and ask these questions, you're just engaging in mental masturbation.

So according to you, unless I personally go out and run a survey and get the results to use it to adjust my worldview, then nothing we say here matters. And in fact, since nobody else did said same survey, they also are not qualified to discuss the matter with me (assuming I had done that survey).

Therefore, none of us should be talking about anything.

Good job on shutting down the discussion of any topic. There's the door. Get the heck out.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Looks like someone needs to read my original post again.

The 'in my opinion' bit? Yeah, I read that. It pretty much agrees with what I said. You're engaged in a mental exercise wherein you apply your worldview and expectations to figure out the motivations of a broad category of others. You're creating a stereotype. Forgive me for not thinking that, even in just your opinion, that's a worthwhile endeavor.

So according to you, unless I personally go out and run a survey and get the results to use it to adjust my worldview, then nothing we say here matters. And in fact, since nobody else did said same survey, they also are not qualified to discuss the matter with me (assuming I had done that survey).

Therefore, none of us should be talking about anything.

Good job on shutting down the discussion of any topic. There's the door. Get the heck out.

Nice, you accuse me of shutting down discussion and then tell me to GTHO. Stay classy?

No, you can talk about it all you want. It really doesn't matter, except that your just building a new stereotype for people that don't think like you wherein you explain to yourself why they would do things that you find distasteful (being in a militia, here), and then comfort yourself that you now have a better understanding of how other people think. You don't. You haven't even challenged yourself to step out and think differently about it, you've just wrapped your warm, cozy preconceptions around the issue and convinced yourself you have a better grasp of it.

If you'd gone and looked at website where people like this talk, or had asked a few for their thoughts, instead of inventing out of whole cloth and your own prejudices a generic simplification of other people's motivations, perhaps I'd have had a touch more respect for your endeavor. I, however, tend to not respect people that armchair psychoanalyze other people in broad, generic, and stereotypical terms. It'a form of soft bigotry.

 

[Istbor]

I didn't see anyone saying or implying that being in a Militia in and of itself is bad? Why are you so quick to assume that is the gist of this topic? Why can it not just be a thought experiment?

 

[Sacrosanct]

The 'in my opinion' bit? Yeah, I read that. It pretty much agrees with what I said. .

You accused me of doing "mental masturbation", implying I never did any research and am just confirming my bias. If you did read my posts, then you would have read that I have a pretty big background with this sort of stuff. So did you lie about reading my posts, or are you being disingenuous?

 

[Ovinomancer]

You accused me of doing "mental masturbation", implying I never did any research and am just confirming my bias. If you did read my posts, then you would have read that I have a pretty big background with this sort of stuff. So did you lie about reading my posts, or are you being disingenuous?

If you were talking about rural people you were familiar with, and/or the military you were a part of, no, you'd have done okay by me. But you're talking specifically about military vets that join militias, and it's clear from your post that you don't know any or a few, and it's also clear that you didn't ask anyone that was a military vet in a militia why they joined and it's clear that you haven't gone looking online to forums that host military vets in militias to observe/talk to them. So, no, you're experience is only tangentially related to your topic, I've read your thread, and I'd appreciate you not calling me a liar.

And accusing someone of 'mental masturbation' is on par with daydreaming or wild speculation. I think wild speculation is a good description of your ideas, and if you'd prefer that descriptor, I'd be glad to switch to it.

 

[Janx]

Most militia people I know are almost all veterans at some point. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that all vets join militias, or that all militia members are veterans, just that when you pile on all of these factors (how you grew up + military experience) generally makes sense as to why one would join a militia.

i was in the army in the 90s, and it was constantly droned about how the Clintons were the devil, and thus the government was horrible and out to get you. The military generally is a pretty big echo chamber, which is unfortunate.

so you've got a basic level of distrust of the government and/or xenophobia based on how you grew up, the military reinforced this and added layers of a sense of brotherhood and worth + addiction to all things combat related, and viola! Predispositoned to join a militia when you come home.

For example, I was overseas for 6 years straight. When I got out, no one cared about my accomplishments, and all of my training working on helicopters didn't count for anything because it wasn't FAA approved courses. No one cared that I was the crewchief for the chief of Staff when he visited Korea, or that I was on the pope's security detail in Sarajevo. I ended up selling cars (one of the worst jobs of my life, btw). So I can see how someone like me would be drawn to an organization that says they value me and my accomplishments when I was in.

I figured that. I don't know that a militia is good or bad. I'm sure there are some that stand for things I don't like, but I would suspect there's ones just like dressing up and drilling, just in case US soil is attacked and that's it.


I would wonder what the ration of vets to non-vets in a militia typically is. As I wouldn't have thought initially that a vet would want to be among a bunch of wannabes. Could be that they self-segregate and there are wannabe militias and vet-militias. Somebody must have studied this.

 

[Janx]

You accused me of doing "mental masturbation", implying I never did any research and am just confirming my bias. If you did read my posts, then you would have read that I have a pretty big background with this sort of stuff. So did you lie about reading my posts, or are you being disingenuous?

Just add him to the ignore list like I did.

Had he actually engaged in the conversation instead of crapping on it, he'd see that you're a vet who might actually know some of what might attract you to a militia. and from my last post, that I actually don't have a for/against opinion on militias and actually amended my thoughts on it based on your view.

Since he's not actually adding a different view to actually consider, he's disruptive.

I'm not too worried about who wants to join a militia. It's a club. They do stuff. I'm sure they learn/share plenty of survival skills and military knowledge. Which on its own merit is just fine and dandy.

If a militia wants to actively start engaging in military activity against people or the government, yeah, that's a problem, but one likely outside of my wheelhouse to deal with (aka, bring in the ATF).

 

[Sacrosanct]

If you were talking about rural people you were familiar with, and/or the military you were a part of, no, you'd have done okay by me. But you're talking specifically about military vets that join militias, and it's clear from your post that you don't know any or a few, and it's also clear that you didn't ask anyone that was a military vet in a militia why they joined and it's clear that you haven't gone looking online to forums that host military vets in militias to observe/talk to them. So, no, you're experience is only tangentially related to your topic, I've read your thread, and I'd appreciate you not calling me a liar.

And accusing someone of 'mental masturbation' is on par with daydreaming or wild speculation. I think wild speculation is a good description of your ideas, and if you'd prefer that descriptor, I'd be glad to switch to it.

Read my post again. I grew up around people who were either part of a militia, or had similar ideologies. I also served 6 years in the military. I'm not just pulling stuff out of my butt. Heck, as of this very moment, I personally know and talk to four people who are current members, and about two dozen others who are not official members but share the same ideologies. And that's as of this moment, and not counting the hundreds of people I've met in the past.

This was all pretty clear in my original post and follow up posts. So I'm left with the impression that you're just being disengenous.

 

[was]

...IME, as a vet, most of the people that I have run into with such anti-government views are military wanna-be's. Their outlook simply wouldn't allow them to join any governmental organization.

...The ones that are vets, either failed to make it through basic or were discharged for various reasons before completing their first enlistment.

..To be fair, however, I have also run into several national guardsmen, active and vet, with such views. I don't know why.

 

[Sacrosanct]

...IME, as a vet, most of the people that I have run into with such anti-government views are military wanna-be's. Their outlook simply wouldn't allow them to join any governmental organization.

...The ones that are vets, either failed to make it through basic or were discharged for various reasons before completing their first enlistment.
.

Yeah, I know a few of those as well. those people want to be part of the sense of brotherhood veterans have, I think.