D&D 5E Test of High Level 5E: Design 4 or 5 lvl 13 PCs for 6 to 8 encounter adventuring day

[iserith]

Considering this was in response to an assertion that the game breaks in favor of the players at high level using baseline PCs (to which my response was that I can use the encounter building guidelines in the DMG to create a balanced and challenging adventure using those very rules and guidelines) then stacking the deck further in the players favor actually adds to my argument and proves it can be done, doesnt it?

I dont need to change anything from the rules as is. They allow me to set the encounter area, including adding any complications to the encounter areas (darkness, pits, lava etc) and make adjustments to monster CR that accounts for any minor changes that are made to the monsters (decking a monster out in armor, or ruling a monster is slightly stronger than normal, increasing its HD and CR appropriately) etc.

Right, plus you can use the standard encounter budget for monsters, then make the goal of the encounter something other than slaughtering the other side (for PCs and/or monsters) which often makes the challenge more difficult without going outside the DMG guidelines.

 

[Flamestrike]

Right, plus you can use the standard encounter budget for monsters, then make the goal of the encounter something other than slaughtering the other side (for PCs and/or monsters) which often makes the challenge more difficult without going outside the DMG guidelines.

Already way ahead of you.

Itll all be explained in the adventure (Im writing it as we speak).

 

[Celtavian]

Jubali the Bard

Jubali: Half-elf female Lore Bard 10/warlock (Fey Pact) 3
(Stat Points: 27, Half-elf racial bonuses: +1 dex, +1 Con, +2 Cha)
Medium Female Humanoid
Armor Class 15 (elven chain, dex)
Hit Points 107 (13d8+39)
Speed 30 ft.
Senses Darkvision 60ft.
Str 8 (-1) Dex 14 (+2) Con 16 (+3)
Int 10 (+0) Wis 12 (+1) Cha 19 (+4)
Alignment chaotic neutral
Languages common, elvish, draconic, sylvan.

TRAITS
Proficiency (+5)
Tools:
Saving Throws: Wis, Cha, Con
Darkvision (60 feet)
Keen Senses
Fey Ancestry
Skill Versatility (Perception, Acrobatics)
Bardic Inspiration (4/short rest; d10)
Son of Rest (d8)
Jack of All Trades (+2; includes initiative)
Bard College (Lore)
Expertise (Stealth, Perception, Acrobatics, Persuasion)
Font of Inspiration
Countercharm
Magical Secrets (10th, Circle of Power, wall of force)
Bonus Proficiencies (College of Lore: Investigation, Arcana, Performance)
Cutting Words (60 feet, creatures immune to charm are immune, uses inspiration)
Additional Magical Secrets (+2 spells any class: counterspell, absorb elements
Pact Magic (Pact of the Chain: Sprite, cast find familiar as ritual)
Eldritch Invocations (Agonizing Blast, Devil Sight)
Fey Presence [10 foot cube, Frightened or Charm until end of next turn, Wis Save]


SKILLS (Passive Perception 21)
History +5, Persuasion +14, Perception +11, Acrobatics +12, Insight +6, Athletics +4, Stealth +12, Investigation +5, Arcana +5, Performance +9
TOOLS: Lute, Flute, Harp.

LEVEL BONUSES: +2 Charisma, Resilient: Con

ACTIONS (Initiative +4)
Melee Attacks— Dagger (2): +7/+7 to hit (reach 5 ft.; one creature).
Hit: 1d6+2/1d4+2 piercing damage
Ranged Attack—Dagger: +7 to hit (range 20/60 ft; one creature).
Hit: 1d4+2 piercing damage
Ranged Attack—Eldritch Blast: +9 to hit (range 120 ft; 3 beams)
Hit: 1d10+4

EQUIPMENT Arcane Focus (bard and warlock), dungeoneer's pack, studded leather armor. gem of seeing, boots of speed, 2 :potions of greater healing, permanent components for spells, 2: uses of consumable components per spell, 5: uses of greater restoration.

PERSONAL CHARACTERISTICS
Background -Noble (Daughter of human king of a small kingdom that married an elf woman)
Feature: Position of Privilege
Skill Proficiencies-History (Int), Persuasion (Cha)
Tool Proficiencies: Cards (She enjoys card games that are a mix of chance and skill)
Languages: Sylvan
Appearance: A strikingly beautiful, silvery blond-haired woman with a lithe, voluptuous build and vibrant sky-blue eyes filled with whimsy. Her voice is flirtatious and musical.
Traits: I am always in motion like the wind dancing across the world.
Ideals: Independence (I am beholden to no one and refuse to be confined by the world of human nobility)
Bond: My loyalty to my mother is unwavering.
Flaw: In fact, the world does revolve around me.

BARD SPELL SLOTS: 4/3/3/3/2 (+9 spell attack, DC 17 save)
BARD SPELLS KNOWN: 14 (+2 magical secrets Lore Bard; up to lvl 5)
Cantrips (4): vicious mockery, mage hand, prestidigitation, minor illusion,
1st: healing word, silent image,thunderwave
2nd: see invisibility, suggestion, heat metal
3rd: hypnotic pattern, dispel magic, counterspell
4th: dimension door, greater invisibility, banishment
5th: greater restoration, hold monster, circle of power, wall of force



WARLOCK SPELL SLOTS PER SHORT REST: 2 LEVEL: 2
WARLOCK SPELLS KNOWN (2 cantrips, 4 spells known up to 2nd level)
Cantrips: eldritch blast, chill touch
1st: faerie fire, sleep, hex
2nd: darkness,


Character Building Notes
1. I'm going Fey Pact instead of Fiend for a change. I've always wanted to try it. I'm making it so lvl 1 warlock was the first one taken to gain Wisdom and Charisma as base saves and would have provided primary offense early.

 

[iserith]

Jubali: Half-elf female Lore Bard 10/warlock (
S: 8 (-1) D: 14 (+1) C: 15 (+2) I: 10 W: 12 Ch: 17 (Stat Points: 27, Half-elf racial bonuses: +1 dex, +1 Con, +2 Cha)




Does anyone have a good method for building characters and placing them in a forum format such as this one? A template or a program?

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?469004-The-Full-Pregenerated-Character-Repository

 

[BoldItalic]

It's an interesting experiment but I think the way the goals are set might be the elephant in the room.

You will presumably be defining a metric that lets you place a break point between "DMG guideliness are okay" and "DMG guidelines are not okay" in terms of resource depletion (in the most general sense) or some other parameter, but the DM has the power to move the result above or below the breakpoint by tweaking the encounter goals whilst still complying with the guidelines.

For example, suppose the DM places an encounter consisting of an Archmage allied with a Beholder. According to the guidelines, that's a Hard encounter. But there's a world of difference between monster goals of

• Put all the PCs to sleep so the Archmage can steal all their magic items and run away
• Delay the party by 4 rounds even if you both die in the attempt
• Kill the dwarf at all costs

and so on, in terms not only of how the encounter will play out but in terms of what can be judged successful or unsuccessful in terms of party resource depletion.

 

[Flamestrike]

It's an interesting experiment but I think the way the goals are set might be the elephant in the room.

You will presumably be defining a metric that lets you place a break point between "DMG guideliness are okay" and "DMG guidelines are not okay" in terms of resource depletion (in the most general sense) or some other parameter, but the DM has the power to move the result above or below the breakpoint by tweaking the encounter goals whilst still complying with the guidelines.

For example, suppose the DM places an encounter consisting of an Archmage allied with a Beholder. According to the guidelines, that's a Hard encounter. But there's a world of difference between monster goals of

• Put all the PCs to sleep so the Archmage can steal all their magic items and run away
• Delay the party by 4 rounds even if you both die in the attempt
• Kill the dwarf at all costs

and so on, in terms not only of how the encounter will play out but in terms of what can be judged successful or unsuccessful in terms of party resource depletion.

Without giving anything away, Im writing a full adventure and not just 7ish unrelated random combat combat encounters.

 

[Celtavian]

It's an interesting experiment but I think the way the goals are set might be the elephant in the room.

You will presumably be defining a metric that lets you place a break point between "DMG guideliness are okay" and "DMG guidelines are not okay" in terms of resource depletion (in the most general sense) or some other parameter, but the DM has the power to move the result above or below the breakpoint by tweaking the encounter goals whilst still complying with the guidelines.

For example, suppose the DM places an encounter consisting of an Archmage allied with a Beholder. According to the guidelines, that's a Hard encounter. But there's a world of difference between monster goals of

• Put all the PCs to sleep so the Archmage can steal all their magic items and run away
• Delay the party by 4 rounds even if you both die in the attempt
• Kill the dwarf at all costs

and so on, in terms not only of how the encounter will play out but in terms of what can be judged successful or unsuccessful in terms of party resource depletion.

I trust Flamestrike and Iserith to fulfill the spirit of the test and make things appropriate. Just like I'll build a mix of characters, some less min-maxed than the others. My whole group isn't perfect min-maxers. I'll give them personalities, so they aren't all operating on perfect min-max assumptions.

 

[Celtavian]

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?469004-The-Full-Pregenerated-Character-Repository

Thank you, sir.

 

[Flamestrike]

I trust Flamestrike and Iserith to fulfill the spirit of the test and make things appropriate. Just like I'll build a mix of characters, some less min-maxed than the others. My whole group isn't perfect min-maxers. I'll give them personalities, so they aren't all operating on perfect min-max assumptions.

Iserith will have a copy of the adventure and he can confirm/ veto it all before we start.

 

[BoldItalic]

Does anyone have a good method for building characters and placing them in a forum format such as this one? A template or a program?

I do, sort of, but it probably isn't ideal for what you want. It generates things like this (and complete WotC-style character sheets if you want it)

Sir Bearthel of Highcross

13th-Level Half-Elf Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)
Medium Male Humanoid
Armour Class 20 (Plate Mail and Shield)
Hit Points 108 (13@ 1d10+2)
Speed 30 feet
Sense Normal
Passive Perception 10
Initiative +2
Str 18 (+4) Dex 14 (+2) Con 14 (+2)
Int 8 (-1) Wis 10 (+0) Cha 16 (+3)
Proficiency Bonus +5
Alignment Neutral-Good
Languages Common, Elvish, Gnomish, Dwarvish
Background Noble (Knight)

FEATURES & TRAITS
Retainers Pedigree: son of the Lord of Highcross Retainers: a squire (Ivellios), an elven armourer (Sariel) and a human herald (Ettaronalia)
Divine Sense Times: four times
Lay On Hands Points: 65
Spell Preparation - Paladin Number: 9
Oath Spells
Extra Attack Times: twice
Divine Smite
Improved Divine Smite
Divine Health
Channel Divinity - Paladin
Channel Divinity - Abjure Enemy
Channel Divinity - Vow of Enmity
Aura of Protection
Relentless Avenger
Aura of Courage
Fighting Style: Dueling
Darkvision Shade: gray
Fey Ancestry

PROFICIENCIES
Tools: Gaming Set (Dragonchess)
Saving Throws: Wis, Cha

FEATS
Inspiring Leader Temporary hit points: 16

SKILLS
Athletics +9, Deception +8, History +4, Intimidation +8, Performance +8, Persuasion +8

ATTACKS
Shortsword +1 +10 To Hit, 1d6+7 piercing finesse, light
Club +9 To Hit, 1d4+6 bludgeoning light

SPELLCASTING
Magic Ability: Cha
Focus: Holy Symbol
MAM: +8
SaveDC: 16
Spells Per Day: 4, 3, 3, 1
Oath Spells: Bane, Hunter's Mark, Hold Person, Misty Step, Haste, Protection from Energy, Banishment, Dimension Door
Spells Prepared: Detect Poison and Disease, Heroism, Branding Smite, Zone of Truth, Aura of Vitality, Create Food and Water, Aura of Life, Death Ward, Locate Creature

EQUIPMENT (106 lb)
Plate Mail, Shield, Shortsword +1, Club, Holy Symbol, Backpack, Blanket, Candles(10), Tinderbox, Alms Box, Blocks of Incense(2), Censer, Vestments, Day's Rations(2), Waterskin, Fine clothes, Signet Ring, Scroll of Pedigree, Sewing Needle, 56 gems@100gp, 150gp, A sheet of parchment upon which is drawn a complex mechanical contraption

PERSONAL CHARACTERISTICS
Traits: Bearthel is loved by the common folk for his kindness and generosity, but he is unforgiving. His favour, once lost, is lost forever.
Ideal - Respect. Respect is due to me because of my position, but all people regardless of station deserve to be treated with dignity.
Bond: Bearthel needs to be seen by the common folk as a hero of the people.
Flaw: Bearthel has an insatiable desire for carnal pleasures.