D&D 5E D&d is not a good sandbox?

[FrogReaver]

I know some people really like playing d&d as a sandbox. However it seems to me that the rest mechanics have never worked well for that style of play. Am I missing something or are some people just trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?

 

[Rune]

Always works for me. Perhaps if you explain why you think that the rest mechanic doesn't support sandbox play, I can then give you specific reasons why I've never found that to be so.

 

[FrogReaver]

Always works for me. Perhaps if you explain why you think that the rest mechanic doesn't support sandbox play, I can then give you specific reasons why I've never found that to be so.

How do you prevent too many long rests. How do you allow just enough short rests?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I know some people really like playing d&d as a sandbox. However it seems to me that the rest mechanics have never worked well for that style of play. Am I missing something or are some people just trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?

Works fine for me. The main thing that changes between tailored linear play and sandbox play is that you can no longer rely on finely-calibrated encounters N times per day--it's kind of like the classic difference between being on level N of the Gygaxian dungeon (filled with level N stuff) vs. being in the wilderness (filled with who-knows-what, how-many-times-per-hour).

Sandbox play is not "safe" by default. You have to make it safe(ish) through good play. Having a variety of different rest mechanics in your party is a good thing because it means that even if you get unlucky and nearly wiped out by the T-Rex stampede, the (long rest) wizard can pop up a Rope Trick for the party to go and hide in for an hour so that the (short rest) warlock and the (semi-short rest) druid can get some juice back, as well as the wizard getting a trickle of power back via Arcane Recovery and everyone getting to spend some HD.

Other important aspects of sandbox play include the necessity of telegraphing (in general terms) what the danger level is of a particular region or encounter so that players are not surprised (i.e. tone down the who-knows-what factor, either by overt clues like mangled bodies or through more subtle and optional stuff like rumors the PCs can listen for or sages they can consult), the need to for players to take the strategic initiative in deciding what their goals are, and the need for DMs to be aware of the difference between sandboxing and "realism". If the goal of your sandbox is to maintain a high degree of player agency, it isn't necessarily the case that you have to avoid exciting, adventurous coincidences.

Quick example:

In a sandbox emphasizing "realism", when the PCs get shipwrecked on a beach, the odds of there being an invading undead army that shows up on that beach will be bounded by the number of invading undead armies that can plausibly hit the beaches every year divided by the number of beaches in the world. It's probably going to be a relatively tame beach in this case.

In a "sandbox" emphasizing player agency, when the PCs get shipwrecked on a beach, the odds of there being an invading undead army depend on a fine balance between pre-established game factors, the players' intent as expressed through their previous actions (did they do anything to avoid running across undead armies? Divination spells, etc.?), and the DM's sense of both fun and plausibility. It can be okay for the PCs to be Weirdness Magnets, especially if the players are okay with being Weirdness Magnets--but it's still a sandbox as long as the players are allowed to choose their own mode of engagement with the weirdness they encounter. (Fight the undead, hide from the undead, infiltrate the undead and try to take over the army, etc.)

 

[happyhermit]

How do you prevent too many long rests. How do you allow just enough short rests?

Did you look at the optional rest rules in the DMG. Short rest = 8hrs, Long rest = 7days.

I haven't found it necessary, but it can make things very interesting.

 

[Sacrosanct]

How do you prevent too many long rests. How do you allow just enough short rests?

Part of what makes a sandbox what it is, is the living world aspect. I.e., the game world keeps on going on regardless of what the PCs do or do not do. All inhabitants act like they would be expected to act as if they were living creatures.

So how does this answer your question? The opportunity for a long or short rest entirely depends on what is going on around them. The game world does not go on pause because the party wants a long or short rest. Maybe the party wants to do a long rest, but the monsters are alerted to their presence and find them long before 8 hours go by (or even an hour depending on the proximity of the monsters to the party). The DMG has guidelines as to what the average # of short and long rests might be in a typical adventuring day, but that's just an average, and a guideline to boot. In wilderness adventures, rests might be more frequent. In dungeons and castles, you might have a dozen encounters before you have the opportunity for a short rest. Maybe the party has to flee and regroup, which allows the lair to regroup as well.

 

[Ovinomancer]

How do you prevent too many long rests. How do you allow just enough short rests?

Well, if you go with the suggestion of one long rest per 24 hours, that solves itself. Also, in a sandbox, you can easily set up the assertion that a long rest can only occur in a place of safety -- either a well defended camp, a specially protected place in the wilds, or back in civilization. That can easily stop the long rests.

Short rests can also be addressed in a similar way -- wandering monsters make resting uncertain. Time limits sometimes interfere. Requirements for a minimum rest area can do it. Short rests are less of an issue.

Of course, you can short circuit the whole thing and just use the variant slow rest mechanics in the DMG, where a short rest is a night's sleep and a long rest is a week's downtime (or even modify that as you want, I'm going with a night's sleep for a short rest and two days downtime in a safe place for a long).

 

[feartheminotaur]

How do you prevent too many long rests. How do you allow just enough short rests?

For the first:

Random Encounters. Expectation is 15% chance (roughly 1 in 6) per roll. If you rolled every hour, that's an average of 4 a day, and at least one over an 8 hour 'rest' period. I don't always make these monsters they can kill and go back to sleep. Maybe it's an old enemy casting scrying or a dream spell. Maybe it's a friendly creature that says "instead of sleeping, I need your help and I'll make it worth your while".

Survival. Kind of hard to just throw your bedroll down anywhere, gotta keep moving until a suitable place can be found. Kind of hard to sleep on an empty stomach and foraging isn't resting, so have to make sure there's food and water around (as well as upping the chance of stumbling onto something)

NPC/hirelings. Well, we wanted to rest but Satipo ran off with the idol and the whip while we were pitching camp. Gotta go get that back.

Also, my DM she separates sleep and long rest - you travel eight hours, you sleep eight hours, and you long rest for eight hours - since it's hard to memorize spells, sharpen weapons, tend to wounds, etc. while you're sleeping.

For the second: If you're making Encounter checks every hour, the players are guaranteed at least an hour's rest. IME players with short rest abilities don't always get a rest since players with long rest abilities will keep moving.

Overall when I do a sandbox (or wilderness adventure or hexcrawl) I try to set up the day in advance: Roll all my random encounters so I know how many they have and can budge accordingly; look at where they are and can realistically travel to so that if the random encounters are short they'll stumble on a dungeon or ruined temple or whatever; and if the day seems light, a little overnight disruption from a random table I have just for that (called "no rest"). I see the DMs job is to challenge players, and sometimes over-reliance on random chance in a sandbox prevents that.

 

[feartheminotaur]

If the goal of your sandbox is to maintain a high degree of player agency, it isn't necessarily the case that you have to avoid exciting, adventurous coincidences.

This is an excellent post, and I think the quoted text should be the first thing in any DM's notes when running a sandbox campaing.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

How do you prevent too many long rests. How do you allow just enough short rests?

I think you're asking how you manage pacing. Is that right? Obviously it's up to the players whether they choose to lie down and sleep in the middle of the dungeon (long rest once every 24 hours), or just hole up in a corner somewhere and gulp down some water (short rest for an hour).

In general, there's two ways to do it: pressure the players, or pressure the PCs.

If you rely on the players' sense of pacing, it may be that no pacing issues will come up at all. You may have the kinds of players who just naturally don't stop and rest every time they expend an Action Surge. Maybe they always want to see what's over the next hill. But if you do feel the need to control the pacing at the metagame (player) level, you have a couple of options. You could end the session every time they take a long rest. This aligns the players' sense of urgency (such as it is) with the characters' sense of urgency--if you stop now, nothing will happen until next week. You could do a lightweight version of this by enforcing a snack break or reading bad poetry or something for fifteen minutes. The key thing is that you're trying to make the players feel what the characters feel when they take some downtime.

If you instead choose to pressure the PCs, you can:

(1) Throw lots of low-XP wandering monsters at them (e.g. 50% chance per hour of 2d4 Giant Rats, which eat up resources and give negligible XP in return);

(2) Build scenarios with a limited window of opportunity (you can loot the evil necromancer's tomb, but the key to get in only works once; you can sneak in and try to assassinate the hobgoblin generals, but once you tip your hand they're going to reinforce their bodyguards so you only get one shot; the ancient crypt you found is flooding and has a 20% chance each day to sink entirely into the swamp);

(3) Make a dynamic world (if you don't loot this ancient blue space pyramid, Morrolan's group may do it first and keep all the treasure and XP).

Obviously you can mix-and-match these techniques as it suits you.