D&D 5E Player Races in Upcoming Volo's Guide to Monsters

[Leatherhead]

Kenku, really? Do we not currently have Aarokocra? Is there really that much demand that we need 2 bird races? Most of other other picks seem fine, but this one seems like a genuine waste of ink. The only explanation I can come up with for it is if they really, really wanted an AL legal bird race.

The Aarokocra have two problems for people looking to be a bird:

1. The Adventurers League doesn't allow them.
2. Some DM's can't handle flying PC's.

Kenku also have some popularity in their own right. And I suppose offer another option for people looking to be a small race.

But lets be real here, two Bird Races, with totally different niche's mind you, are perfectly fine. It's not like the Elf and Dwarf overload of previous editions.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah the idea that Kenku are redundant made me laugh. The Kenku is an actually popular race. And have nothing in common with aarakokra except for being bird based. Like...that is literally where the similarity ends.

So, would wolf people make bear people redundant? Does the fact there are cat people in the book mean lupine and ursine humanoids are both a waste of ink?

Why have minotaurs? Orcs already...are big and violent, right?


Anyway, I look forward to seeing how the official Kenku match up with my homebrew, since they're one of the most popular races in my homebrew setting. Of course, I have two subraces, and I really doubt the small sized flying Kenku will be in the book. Maybe we will also get Tengu. They fly, right?

 

[Mercule]

Great points! For me, mechanical overlap is a wide range, but becomes something else when the whole stateblock is the same. But I'm totally fine with orcs, goliaths, bugbears, firbolg, and minotaurs, for instance. They're all different, even if they are all big +str heavy hitters.

Yeah. There are only six ability scores. The pattern seems to be +2 to one and +1 to another. That only gives about 30 variations -- 36 if you include "no secondary" as a possibility and 42 if you include "pick a stat" as another. Without actually counting the races in the PHB, we've got to be at least 1/4 of the way there once you include subraces.

To me, stat overlap is really about the bullet-point abilities, as I called the other stuff. That allows for effectively infinite variety. Of course, having two races that differ only in whether they get auto-proficiency in long sword or battle axe really isn't much of a difference, so the devil will always be in the details -- and, thus, subjective.

 

[gyor]

Stat over lap doesn't matter as long they have different abilities and powers.

 

[Dualazi]

The Aarokocra have two problems for people looking to be a bird:

1. The Adventurers League doesn't allow them.
2. Some DM's can't handle flying PC's.

Kenku also have some popularity in their own right. And I suppose offer another option for people looking to be a small race.

But lets be real here, two Bird Races, with totally different niche's mind you, are perfectly fine. It's not like the Elf and Dwarf overload of previous editions.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the SCAG have more subraces for elves and dwarves? I hope we’re not going down that abysmal road again but we might just be. Even if we’re not, I don’t think we need to try a different flavor of the same poison with the exotic races.

Kenku are a traditional Japanese creature, and have quite a following in D&D going back several editions. The Aarakocra fill a different niche - they're the flying bird people, while the kenku are sneaky anthropomorphic crows, heavier on the personality traits of the crow rather than on the wings.

I would be way more accepting if they were part of an Oriental Adventures type supplement and intended as a method of converting or replacing Aarokocra. As it stands, then yeah, As I and Leatherhead said, this reeks of just giving people an AL bird people option.

Yeah the idea that Kenku are redundant made me laugh. The Kenku is an actually popular race. And have nothing in common with aarakokra except for being bird based. Like...that is literally where the similarity ends.

You mean the single most significant aspect about them? Yeah. In your homebrew maybe people can casually tell at a glance the difference between the two, but outside of spelljammer I’d guess that all other major humanoid groups (humans/dwarves/elves/orcs) are just going to focus on the bird-appearance more than any cultural or mechanical elements that might be present. They're bird-men. I don't think ink should be wasted on two iterations of bird-men at this time.

So, would wolf people make bear people redundant? Does the fact there are cat people in the book mean lupine and ursine humanoids are both a waste of ink?

No, but a Wolf race would definitely make a dog/hyena (yes I know they descended from cats, it doesn’t matter) race redundant, as would a panther race and a tiger race.

Why have minotaurs? Orcs already...are big and violent, right?

This makes about as much sense as saying we shouldn’t have elves and humans because they both have 2 legs and can fight. An orc and a minotaur look nothing at all alike at a glance. Having a Minotaur race and a Bull race *would* be extraneous, and is much closer to the given example of Aarokocra and Kenku.

 

[Leatherhead]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the SCAG have more subraces for elves and dwarves? I hope we’re not going down that abysmal road again but we might just be. Even if we’re not, I don’t think we need to try a different flavor of the same poison with the exotic races.

Let me see:

Shield Dwarves=Mountian Dwarves
Gold Dwarves =Hill Dwarves
Grey Dwarves (Duergar) are stated up here, but I recall them being somewhere else too?

Moon Elves = High Elves
Sun Elves= High Elves of a different color.
Wood Elves exist here as in the PHB.
Drow Exist here too, obviously.
Avariel, Lyuthari, Sea elves, Star Elves (might possibly be Eladrin), and Wild Elves are just a sidebar that say "Hey they exist in the world, but you aren't really going to play one with this book"

There is an actual stat for Aquatic Half-Elves in a sidebar though.

So technically yes?

But all that aside, I think the Kenku are just fine. Dragonborn don't make Kobolds redundant, after all.

Speaking of which, I wonder when the Kobold is going to make it's triumphant return.

 

[Mecheon]

You mean the single most significant aspect about them? Yeah. In your homebrew maybe people can casually tell at a glance the difference between the two, but outside of spelljammer I’d guess that all other major humanoid groups (humans/dwarves/elves/orcs) are just going to focus on the bird-appearance more than any cultural or mechanical elements that might be present. They're bird-men. I don't think ink should be wasted on two iterations of bird-men at this time.

You're more likely to confuse a halfling with a kenku than you are an aarokocra

I mean, let's just look at them

Aarakocra are 5-6 ftish tall, have wings, and generally speaking are brightly coloured parrot/eagles who stand out and have their racial weakness of extreme claustrophobia
Kenku are 3 ft halfling sized sneaky ravens who don't have wings but do indeed want to put a knife in your kidneys and steal your stuff. They don't care about enclosed spaces

Kenku are popular enough honestly, they should have been published first and Aarakocra left to the sidelines. They're a second tier race

No, but a Wolf race would definitely make a dog/hyena (yes I know they descended from cats, it doesn’t matter) race redundant, as would a panther race and a tiger race.

Hyenas didn't evolve from cats. They share an oldest common ancestor, but that thing probably wouldn't have been something you call 'a cat'. More of, given we're talking ancient mammals here, some sort of arboreal mongoose-like creature, as the forms we consider 'Hyena" and "Feline" didn't evolve by that point

 

[Dualazi]

Let me see:

Shield Dwarves=Mountian Dwarves
Gold Dwarves =Hill Dwarves
Grey Dwarves (Duergar) are stated up here, but I recall them being somewhere else too?

Moon Elves = High Elves
Sun Elves= High Elves of a different color.
Wood Elves exist here as in the PHB.
Drow Exist here too, obviously.
Avariel, Lyuthari, Sea elves, Star Elves (might possibly be Eladrin), and Wild Elves are just a sidebar that say "Hey they exist in the world, but you aren't really going to play one with this book"

There is an actual stat for Aquatic Half-Elves in a sidebar though.

So technically yes?

But all that aside, I think the Kenku are just fine. Dragonborn don't make Kobolds redundant, after all.

Speaking of which, I wonder when the Kobold is going to make it's triumphant return.

That's still 4 elven races currently, or an additional half-elf variant depending on how you choose to slice it. Also...I kinda would say dragonborn replace kobolds. The draconic affiliated lizardfolk themes are all there, what is missing, the trap affinity? Size difference? Being an enemy/underdog?

Either way, I don't have anything conceptually against either race, but wizards has limited time and energy to devote to this, given that it's not even a true player's resource. That's really the root of my complaint, that I wish they would opt to cover as many different themes or variations on fantasy races as they can, rather than give precious to space to ones that I personally think are redundant.

 

[gyor]

That's still 4 elven races currently, or an additional half-elf variant depending on how you choose to slice it. Also...I kinda would say dragonborn replace kobolds. The draconic affiliated lizardfolk themes are all there, what is missing, the trap affinity? Size difference? Being an enemy/underdog?

Either way, I don't have anything conceptually against either race, but wizards has limited time and energy to devote to this, given that it's not even a true player's resource. That's really the root of my complaint, that I wish they would opt to cover as many different themes or variations on fantasy races as they can, rather than give precious to space to ones that I personally think are redundant.

It is a True player resource, for playable races it has 12 detailed races and large amount of quickly done races, it will have new shapes for wildshape, new Beasts to have as companions, new creatures for summoning spells and True Polymorph, likely new setting lore.

And its a done deal, they're already committed to these races. Kbolds, Kenkus, ect..., are really popular and likely already done, except maybe for the art, so most of the engergy has been expended.

And given the volume of races I think the only D&D fantasy races that won't be covered, are setting specific ones that don't appear in FR, like Warforged, which would come out with Eberron.

Even with the races we know about there is a wide area explored.

Firbolgs (giants), Kenku (land based, tricky, crow people), Tritons (Aquatic race), Aasimar (Celestial race), Tabaxi (Jaguar/Leopard/Cat Folk and a fast race), Orcs (War like barbarian race), Goblins (small, sneaky race), with say 5 more detailed races. And really weird stuff will be likely on the quick race list.

 

[gyor]

If I had to guess about the last 5 detailed races:

Githyanki
Githzerai
Hobgoblin
Thrikreen
Knbolds

Just a guess, stuff like Shadar Kai, Extimaar/Pureblood Yaun Ti, Flinds, and odder stuff in the quick races section.

Just my prediction.