D&D 5E Do you care about setting "canon"?

[pemerton]

Metallic dragons, angels, and storm giants of the top of my head.

Metallic dragons weren't made evil. Angels weren't made evil either - they are "any". So storm giants.

That's not "many creatures" as [MENTION=6779993]Elderbrain[/MENTION] said.

 

[pemerton]

Has anyone actually read Dragons of Autumn Twilight?

Yes.

Upthread, there was disagreement between posters - all of whom are familiar with the source material - as to whether or not an atheist character makes sense in DL.

Familiarity with a common source material didn't make this disiagreement go away. Which is my point.

(For what it's worth, I don't see that being atheist makes sense in a campaign where it's common knowledge that the gods rained destruction on the world a few hundred years ago.)

 

[Shasarak]

Yes.

Upthread, there was disagreement between posters - all of whom are familiar with the source material - as to whether or not an atheist character makes sense in DL.

Familiarity with a common source material didn't make this disiagreement go away. Which is my point.

(For what it's worth, I don't see that being atheist makes sense in a campaign where it's common knowledge that the gods rained destruction on the world a few hundred years ago.)

Lets face it, if it is possible to believe in Gods with no evidence to support their existence then it must certainly be possible to not believe in Gods that are there (as per the Planescape Faction the Ather).

And if no human in living memory has seen any evidence that there are still Gods in Dragonlance then again, why would there not be Atheists? You can not just declare: There are Gods ergo there can not be Atheists.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

You can not just declare: There are Gods ergo there can not be Atheists.

Especially because D&D allows for a special sort of atheism by which the character believes that what people refer to as "gods" are not really gods, they are just exceptionally powerful [insert species of origin here], and in many of the campaign settings they can site stories in which a being ascended to "godhood" rather than simply having always been a god as their evidence of such.

 

[pemerton]

Lets face it, if it is possible to believe in Gods with no evidence to support their existence then it must certainly be possible to not believe in Gods that are there (as per the Planescape Faction the Ather).

I will let this go on past me for reasons of board rules, except to say that - at least as I understand it - the Planescape faction doesn't deny the existence of Powers, but simply denies that they are worthy of worship.

And if no human in living memory has seen any evidence that there are still Gods in Dragonlance then again, why would there not be Atheists? You can not just declare: There are Gods ergo there can not be Atheists.

If someone thinks that the gods are all dead or gone, that's a different thing. I was taking an atheist to be someone who denied not only that the currently are gods, but that there ever had been gods.

Because the evidence for the Cataclysm having occurred is, it seems to me, overwhelming, there is equally overwhelming evidence for the existence of some cause of it.

But even beyond these matters of ingame logic, there is also the question of thematic logic. Does it make to sit down to play a Dragonlance game and to roll up an atheist? I personally don't think it does.

I mean, presumably somewhere in the world of the Hyborian Age there are people who think that all violence, even in defence of others, is wrong. But similarly I think that someone sitting down to play a Conan game, who rolled up such a character, would be breaking the spirit of the game.

 

[Imaro]

I will let this go on past me for reasons of board rules, except to say that - at least as I understand it - the Planescape faction doesn't deny the existence of Powers, but simply denies that they are worthy of worship.

Actually they deny the "Powers" are divine and believe they are just powerful beings in the same way I suppose a Dragon or Efreet is.

 

[Shasarak]

I will let this go on past me for reasons of board rules, except to say that - at least as I understand it - the Planescape faction doesn't deny the existence of Powers, but simply denies that they are worthy of worship.

No, they say that just because you are powerful does not make you a "God" any more then being a high level Magic User is a "God"

If someone thinks that the gods are all dead or gone, that's a different thing. I was taking an atheist to be someone who denied not only that the currently are gods, but that there ever had been gods.

Because the evidence for the Cataclysm having occurred is, it seems to me, overwhelming, there is equally overwhelming evidence for the existence of some cause of it.

But even beyond these matters of ingame logic, there is also the question of thematic logic. Does it make to sit down to play a Dragonlance game and to roll up an atheist? I personally don't think it does.

I mean, presumably somewhere in the world of the Hyborian Age there are people who think that all violence, even in defence of others, is wrong. But similarly I think that someone sitting down to play a Conan game, who rolled up such a character, would be breaking the spirit of the game.

In the spirit of Dragonlance, which of the Heroes of the Lance was a Cleric at the beginning of the novels and which was a Cleric by the end of the novels? Which ones believed in the old Gods and did it matter if they did not? If anything one of them tried to kill a Goddess in the following trilogy which surely must rank higher on the FU Spirit of the Game rankings then being an Atheist.

And as for overwhelming evidence of Gods, around 200 years ago there was a volcanic event which caused the Year Without a Summer . Now the Cataclysm was probably a lot worse then that but I presume that your family has passed down tales to you of the hardships they suffered. And if they did not then why are Dragonlance characters being held to a stricter standard given their even more inferior records?

 

[Maxperson]

Yes.

Upthread, there was disagreement between posters - all of whom are familiar with the source material - as to whether or not an atheist character makes sense in DL.

Familiarity with a common source material didn't make this disiagreement go away. Which is my point.

(For what it's worth, I don't see that being atheist makes sense in a campaign where it's common knowledge that the gods rained destruction on the world a few hundred years ago.)

With no evidence of the gods since then, that "common knowledge" could and would be shrugged off as mythology and superstition to explain natural phenomenon(the blood sea/Istar) by a lot of people.

 

[pemerton]

[MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION], [MENTION=94143]Shasarak[/MENTION] - I think that by disagreeing with me about whether or not an atheist character is an appropriate choice for a DL game, you are demonstrating my point that sticking to one particular text won't resolve the sorts of problem that [MENTION=2067]I'm A Banana[/MENTION] is concerned with, namely, a lack of consensus over what it means to be faithful to the setting.

 

[Maxperson]

I will let this go on past me for reasons of board rules, except to say that - at least as I understand it - the Planescape faction doesn't deny the existence of Powers, but simply denies that they are worthy of worship.

It goes further than that. They also deny that they are gods at all, relegating the "powers" to being just adventurers who are more powerful than most.

If someone thinks that the gods are all dead or gone, that's a different thing. I was taking an atheist to be someone who denied not only that the currently are gods, but that there ever had been gods.

Which makes perfect sense for Dragonlance where there have been no gods or even evidence of gods for centuries. Myth and legend is all they are.........to an atheist.

Because the evidence for the Cataclysm having occurred is, it seems to me, overwhelming, there is equally overwhelming evidence for the existence of some cause of it.

It was a volcano, or meteor. It wasn't gods, because gods don't exist. People who believe that gods nonsense are fools.

But even beyond these matters of ingame logic, there is also the question of thematic logic. Does it make to sit down to play a Dragonlance game and to roll up an atheist? I personally don't think it does.

Why wouldn't it make sense? There are no gods, so why not be an atheist? It's not like the PC can't change his mind if the gods return and actual proof comes into being.