D&D 5E New to D&D. Warlock - Sorcerer Multiclass

[Lethol]

That looks right. You just look at your warlock table for warlock spell slots and spell slot level, and just look at sorcerer table for sorcerer slots and level. Just remember that how many slots you have and of what level is determined separately, and you should be fine.

Can I ask why you want to mix the two, btw? Warlock is a great class on its own!

The reason why, is that I know a little more about the sorcerer spells from the d&d pc games . But I acknowledge that this approach does have it's limits. I would really like to have a familiar, I think it's fun to have a little companion full of mischief (I am a dad IRL). But since I only access to two invocations, I have to choose between "voice of the chain master" and "repelling strike". I think the first one are invaluable for a chain master. But then, on the other hand I want to have a character who are able to deal a amazing lot of damage, which makes Tome a valid option. With that perspective I will survive the loss of my dear familiar (but, well I may change my mind again)... And there you have another reason why I want to multiclass warlock and sorcerer. it's a win win. From warlock, I get a lot of cantrips (and one of them is truly awesome) plus a few good spells. From sorcerer I get Metamagic with together with Hex makes it possible for me to manipulate the spells and in that way I can make stronger then they were before.

Anyway, for Patron, they are pretty evenly matched. I'd look especially at the *low level* benefits of each, as they will be part of you character early, and thus have a bigger impact on how you end up seeing your character and how it plays.

I haven't decided yet wich patron I will use, I am trying to find out wich patron will be most usefull in the long run. The "sold your soul to the devil" thing with the pact of the fiend makes it a important decision. Do I want to play a character that is tempted by demons?

also, I haven't seen noobs have any trouble with playing warlocks, and as long as they have some guidance to avoid common multiclassing pitfalls, I've not seen new players have much trouble with multiclassing characters. Just make what you want and enjoy it.

I think that knowledge is the key. That is why I have joined the forum and started this thread. I am not afraid to ask questions. The possiible pitfalls makes it more a challenge. I understand why people have told me why I should avoid multiclass when I am new to the game. But as you say, with guidance and a ambition to learn I think it's possible to sucess.

Note: Eldritch Blast is powerful, and has more than one Invokation related to adding to it, but it can get boring. So...use other cantrips too.

As I wrote in a later post: Eldritch Blast is really awesome. I am amazed that such a strong skill is allowed to be a cantrip. To me, it seems like it could be a high level spell! I will try not to be too addicted to it... It seems so important to remember that the Sorcerer are a powerful class in it's own. And, how fun is it for other players, and the DM if I are overusing Eldritch Blast. I will try to use it as a tactical advantage (like a sniper riffle in a fps game).

​

edit: if sorcerer isn't actually important to the character concept, melee tome or blade warlocks that MC rogue and use the weapon cantrips from Sword Coast Adventure Guide are really fun to play.

I will make a mele character also, just to try it out =).

Last thing: how into character optimization is your group?

I don't really know. we will begin to play in the middle of january... I am studing to Java developer and I will play with a couple of classmates. We are 5 who will play together. At first they were 3, but they were unsure if there were more people in the class that wanted to play. And now one of them has asked some friends to join the campaign. That is why I have to wait. I will try to learn this as good as I can before that. But it is such a long wait. I am thinking about gaming at Roll20 but I am unsure. I am such a noob and I don't want to spoil the fun for a couple of strangers... And to your question... I really dont know, but they are atleast not as fanatic as me. I am the only one who is planning a character right now... I guess I am the biggest nerd among us =).

 

[Wepwawet]

I don't really know. we will begin to play in the middle of january... I am studing to Java developer and I will play with a couple of classmates. We are 5 who will play together. At first they were 3, but they were unsure if there were more people in the class that wanted to play. And now one of them has asked some friends to join the campaign. That is why I have to wait. I will try to learn this as good as I can before that. But it is such a long wait. I am thinging about Roll20 but I am unsure. I am such a noob and I don't want to spoil the fun for a couple of strangers... And to your question... I really dont know, but they are atleast not as fanatic as me. I am the only one who is planning a character right now... I guess I am the biggest nerd among us =).

In my experience, campaigns rarely go above 4th level... You need at least two months of continually playing every single week to reach 4th level. Although lots of people are interested in D&D, few people are actually interested enough to keep the commitment, and games tend to collapse after a while because people start missing more and more sessions, you keep the game on hold till everyone can make it because there was something big happening...

It's brilliant that you're already trying to learn all about your character's possibilities, and planning ahead like that, but honestly, just enjoy the game sessions that you get to play

Be sure to make arrangements with your group about what to do if someone doesn't show up. Either let that PC disappears, fades into the background, someone else runs them... Because you'll only have one or two sessions with everyone present. People have other important commitments and different schedules, it's difficult to get a hold of all 6 of you. Being a student makes it a lot easier, but still...

Sorry if I sound too negative, but it's already happened lots of times with me. Hopefully you'll experience the opposite and you'll have a long lasting campaign with your Sorlock becoming hugely powerful.

Good luck!

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Wepwawet]

In the alternative, if you have a lot of time to kill, why not create several different sample characters? Creating them is different than thinking about them.

Yes, definitely do that. Apart from being fun on itself, when you finally start playing, you'll find that some classmate hadn't had the time to create their character, or forgot about it. And you can give them a cool character of your creation. (just don't expect them to play it anything like you planned it )

 

[mellored]

Eldritch Blast is really awesome. I am amazed that such a strong skill is allowed to be a cantrip. To me, it seems like it could be a high level spell! I will try not to be too addicted to it... It seems so important to remember that the Sorcerer are a powerful class in it's own. And, how fun is it for other players, and the DM if I are overusing Eldritch Blast. I will try to use it as a tactical advantage (like a sniper riffle in a fps game).

Eldritch blast is only awesome in that it scales with multi-classing. Otherwise, it's par for the course with the damage other classes get.

Monks, for instance, get 4 attacks with 1d10+dex (~ 42 damage), with ki to spend on a bunch of special feature and tricks.
Rogues will do 10d6+dex damage (~ 40 damage), with their special movement skills and tricks.
Very similar to warlocks who have 4 attacks at 1d10+Cha (`42 damage), with some spell slots for their tricks.
Paladin do about the same as well, and have really nice defensive auras.

Fighters and barbarians will do a good bit more damage but lack special tricks.
Rangers do a little more, with somewhat less spells. Though they fail to keep up at higher level. Volley just doesn't cut it and the beast don't scale well.
Wizards, sorcerers, druids, and clerics lose their damage but have at lot more special tricks.

There's only a handfull of classes that it improves damage with. And only 1 of those uses Cha. Though your still trading out top level spells for it.


Though D&D is more than just the damage you can deal. You also want a character that's fun for you and others.

 

[WarpedAcorn]

Eldritch Blast is really awesome. I am amazed that such a strong skill is allowed to be a cantrip. To me, it seems like it could be a high level spell! I will try not to be too addicted to it... It seems so important to remember that the Sorcerer are a powerful class in it's own. And, how fun is it for other players, and the DM if I are overusing Eldritch Blast. I will try to use it as a tactical advantage (like a sniper riffle in a fps game).

Eldritch Blast is probably the best damaging Cantrip in 5th Edition, but what makes it so good is probably not what you are thinking. All Cantrips scale with your character level, so anyone with a dip into a caster is going to have a good damaging option. What makes EB stand out is the Invocation Agonizing Blast as well as the fact that instead of scaling as a single Ray, EB adds another Ray. This is important because it allows Agonizing Blast to apply to each Ray and it also allows each Ray to trigger Hex (if Hex has been applied to the target). The last thing that makes EB potent is it damage type, Force. This is important when encountering enemies with Resistance (or in EB's case, the lack of Force resistant creatures). So basically, don't feel bad for using EB. Its the Warlock's signature action.

 

[Richard Hag]

There's only a handfull of classes that it improves damage with. And only 1 of those uses Cha. Though your still trading out top level spells for it.


Though D&D is more than just the damage you can deal. You also want a character that's fun for you and others.

I think your math is overly simplified here and it's leading you to make some incorrect assertions. When it comes to CHA based classes Warlock is a substantial increase in DPR to Bards, and a slight increase to Sorcerers. It's also an increase in DPR to Paladins that aren't Oath of Vengeance.


Warlocks are easily in the upper half of DPR (amusingly ahead of Monks, Rogues, and Rangers which you mentioned as beating them), only being bested by optimized Fighters, Barbarians, and Vengeance Paladins. You also are seemingly ruling out the possibility of only a 2 level dip into Warlock which gives you the main 3 things Warlocks get their damage from: Eldritch Blast, Invocations, and Hex. After that you can go full caster of another class and suddenly you're a massive powerhouse with huge utility while competing with the DPR Kings.


So what we're looking at is Warlocks having higher damage output than 8 classes, and most of the 9th. Realistically, I would knock them down a peg or two under Sorcerer's and Wizards who focus on damage because the number of rounds of combat you have to have for them to do less damage than the Warlock on average exceeds my experience, so that puts them at around 5th for DPR, which is still above average.


Obviously everyone primarily enjoys the game for the roleplaying aspects, but I don't understand why people so frequently act like it's not fun to roleplay a character who is also mechanically very powerful. I think they're both very enjoyable and I don't see a reason to discourage people from making strong characters because there is no reason that would hinder their roleplaying.

 

[Corwin]

When it comes to CHA based classes Warlock is a substantial increase in DPR to Bards, and a slight increase to Sorcerers. It's also an increase in DPR to Paladins that aren't Oath of Vengeance.

Warlocks are easily in the upper half of DPR (amusingly ahead of Monks, Rogues, and Rangers which you mentioned as beating them), only being bested by optimized Fighters, Barbarians, and Vengeance Paladins. You also are seemingly ruling out the possibility of only a 2 level dip into Warlock which gives you the main 3 things Warlocks get their damage from: Eldritch Blast, Invocations, and Hex. After that you can go full caster of another class and suddenly you're a massive powerhouse with huge utility while competing with the DPR Kings.

So what we're looking at is Warlocks having higher damage output than 8 classes, and most of the 9th. Realistically, I would knock them down a peg or two under Sorcerer's and Wizards who focus on damage because the number of rounds of combat you have to have for them to do less damage than the Warlock on average exceeds my experience, so that puts them at around 5th for DPR, which is still above average.

It seems to me like all this DPR analysis is trying to assert that it is in any way important to successful game play. I couldn't agree less. If a table plays D&D just fine, without such concern or focus on this narrow mathematical aspect, clearly it isn't necessary to enjoy the experience. Otherwise, non-DPR-focused PCs would regularly fail to survive and succeed along the course of any given campaign. Which is self-evidently not the case.

Obviously everyone primarily enjoys the game for the roleplaying aspects, but I don't understand why people so frequently act like it's not fun to roleplay a character who is also mechanically very powerful. I think they're both very enjoyable and I don't see a reason to discourage people from making strong characters because there is no reason that would hinder their roleplaying.

Are you intentionally forcing the words "powerful" and "strong" to be synonyms for "DPR"? That seems somewhat shortsighted to me. Clearly, in TTRPGs, there are various ways to be "powerful" and/or "strong" other than just how many points of damage you can deal in a round.

Another part of your analysis that I find to fall a bit short, is the assumption that all warlock *will* have EB, AB and Hex. A perfectly functional warlock can be enjoyably played with as few as *none* of those things.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

There are some questions you need to have answers to before the advice you get here will be very useful.

1) How long is this campaign intended to last?
2) How much do you care about using the rules correctly?
3) What is your goal with this character?
4) Is your group okay with having widely different power levels between the characters?

For #1, I think many people are assuming you are going to be playing one short campaign after another, because that's the playstyle they are familiar with. The advice to play something simpler first comes from that perspective and is excellent advice. I'd go even further and say set aside your Player's Handbook and play through the Lost Mine of Phandelver with only the Basic Rules. On the other hand, if this is going to be the same character you are going to be playing for years, play what you want!

For #2, I can see that there are a lot of elements of the rules that you are still working on. If your group cares about using the rules by the book, go with a simpler start, but the more complexity you involve (such as the more advanced classes from the PHB) the more stuff is going to get messed up on the rules. If not, it doesn't matter what you play.

For #3, are you just going for a character that isn't subpar, or are you trying to "break the game", or something in-between? Do you care about how your character fits into the world's lore and/or believability, or are you thinking in terms of mechanical benefits first?

#4 is important, because we can tell you how to make a warlock/sorcerer of any power level. There is no issue with simply being effective with that combo--the issue is whether you want to be silly good or not. And if you are silly good and the rest of your group is subpar, is that going to be an issue or is everyone going to laugh about it and have fun?

The easiest way to be very powerful is the SorLock build that [MENTION=6716779]Zardnaar[/MENTION] described, but it takes an understanding of the rules that is going to take a while (as the game in general does, hence the suggestion of trying something very simple at first--unless you are going to be locked into a character for a year or more).

The solution that sounds best to me is the idea you had of playing with a group on Roll20 for a bit. Find a group that is experienced with the rules (unless you don't care about doing them by the book) and is willing to help you learn them, play a character of no more than moderate complexity, and hopefully by the time your group gets together you'll be ready to do a more complex character according to whatever your answers to those questions are.

 

[mellored]

I think your math is overly simplified here and it's leading you to make some incorrect assertions. When it comes to CHA based classes Warlock is a substantial increase in DPR to Bards, and a slight increase to Sorcerers. It's also an increase in DPR to Paladins that aren't Oath of Vengeance.

Warlocks are easily in the upper half of DPR (amusingly ahead of Monks, Rogues, and Rangers which you mentioned as beating them), only being bested by optimized Fighters, Barbarians, and Vengeance Paladins. You also are seemingly ruling out the possibility of only a 2 level dip into Warlock which gives you the main 3 things Warlocks get their damage from: Eldritch Blast, Invocations, and Hex. After that you can go full caster of another class and suddenly you're a massive powerhouse with huge utility while competing with the DPR Kings.

According to that...
A level 11 ranger does 32
A level 11 rogue does 30
A level 11 monk does 29
a level 11 paladin does 29
a level 11 warlock does 27

Though it does look like i underestimated paladins at 35. I guess i was thinking sword and board, not 2-handed.

Now a level 17-20 warlocks get foresight and a big DPR bump, but you need to be nearly pure warlock for that, not multiclass.

Obviously everyone primarily enjoys the game for the roleplaying aspects, but I don't understand why people so frequently act like it's not fun to roleplay a character who is also mechanically very powerful. I think they're both very enjoyable and I don't see a reason to discourage people from making strong characters because there is no reason that would hinder their roleplaying.

Sure you can have great damage with a great character.

But you do want to think about both aspects.