D&D 5E Do you care about setting "canon"?

[Remathilis]

So why should we stop at where Blue Dragons live? Why should Blue Dragons only have a Lightning breath weapon - that does not seem very realistic - just give them whatever breath weapon you feel like. And why should Blue Dragons even have to look like Dragons? I think Blue Dragons would be even better if they were green coloured and looked like Orcs so that I can have three of them sitting in a 10 by 10 room guarding a pie.

This actually raises a very good point.

We've discussed "lore" in the sense of things like monster stories, ecology, and place in the game world. Yet we somehow give the mechanics of the game a pass as if to say "as long as the numbers are the same, we can do whatever we want with the lore."

Why stop there?

Why limit kobolds to 1 HD? Why not have a version in the MM that is CR 20, legendary actions, and regional effects?

Why should all trolls be susceptible to fire and acid damage? What about a version of trolls that are immune to fire (or regenerate faster from it!)

Why should all fireballs be 8d6? What about printing a version that does 24d6?

Why should all elves be medium size? Why not put a version in the PHB that is Tiny and proficient in cooking utensils, cobbling tools, or toymaking tools?

Why can't there be a version of wizards that can heal, monks that can use greatswords, or barbarians who cast fireball? Why are you limiting my creativity?

Why should D&D lore force me to accept all of these things? I want my tiny-elven barbarian lobbing 24d6 fireballs at CR 20 kobolds and I want it to be rules-legal!

 

[Remathilis]

In case you missed it, this edition is particularly focused on giving that "shared experience" across groups then ever before. The Designers want you to be able to talk to people from other groups about how you defeated Strahd and whether or not you managed to put down Tiamat. That is the whole point of the slow release of mega adventures.

D&D is one of the few games that doesn't give that.

Two V:TM players can discuss clans and rarely does one say "Well, it my chronicle, the Ventrue are pathologically insane, Gangrel are wiped out, and the Brujah are part of the Sabbat". Most V:TM players stick to the lore revolving around the Masquerade. Similarly, I don't think I ever met a Star Wars GM add Vulcans or re-write the Jedi into space-pirates. You get the idea. Only D&D, for some odd reason, has to be vague, nebulous system capable of running any type of fantasy or not contradicting any notion a DM can come up with.

 

[Remathilis]

Finally, they make a version of D&D just of Permeton. No artwork to lock you into one visual description. No useless lore forcing you into one particular setting. For Faerun, Planescape, or even sample deities. No contradicting fluff for the DM to ignore or rewrite. They even give it away for free!

You can get it right here!

 

[Shasarak]

Why limit kobolds to 1 HD? Why not have a version in the MM that is CR 20, legendary actions, and regional effects?

I could imagine a very amusing anecdote where the party is wiped out by a Legendary Kobold and the confused DM asks "What were you doing, I told you it was a Kobold!!1!"

 

[Greg K]

In case you missed it, this edition is particularly focused on giving that "shared experience" across groups then ever before. The Designers want you to be able to talk to people from other groups about how you defeated Strahd and whether or not you managed to put down Tiamat. That is the whole point of the slow release of mega adventures.

Why should I as an individual DM or player care that the designers are focused on a "shared experience" across groups? Once the game gets into my hands or the hands of a person running a game I in which I am a player, the last thing I want is a "shared experience" across groups. The exception being if the DM is running a specific published setting such as Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms at which point, I consider the default lore after Gygax as something to be disregarded for Greyhawk and and the same for anything beginning with and following the the Time of Troubles for Forgotten Realms).
My own preference is for the the DM to homebrew their own settings. As such, I want the DM to come up with their own ideas of how monsters work and not feel beholden to a design teams particular vision of a monster (e.g. dragon breath weapons and alignment by color). Then again, I also personally have never cared for the whole shared experience, consider the idea of an "official WOTC story team" an anathema, and would pass on a campaign using an adventure path or "canned" adventure.

 

[Greg K]

Why limit kobolds to 1 HD? Why not have a version in the MM that is CR 20, legendary actions, and regional effects?

I have had DMs in AD&D create 4 and 5 hd versions of Kobolds and Orcs to represent superior warrior versions.

Why should all trolls be susceptible to fire and acid damage? What about a version of trolls that are immune to fire (or regenerate faster from it!)

I have also had DMs in prior editions create trolls that were immune to and healed faster from fire. Sometimes as a special ability for a subspecies (edit: we also had trolls wearing a ring of fire resistance) and other times as the default for a campaign. It was never a big deal.

In most campaigns that I run, Trolls are not green, rubbery, and they don't have any special weakness to acid or fire. Usually, they also do not regenerate.

 

[Shasarak]

Why should I as an individual DM or player care that the designers are focused on a "shared experience" across groups? Once the game gets into my hands or the hands of a person running a game I in which I am a player, the last thing I want is a "shared experience" across groups. The exception being if the DM is running a specific published setting such as Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms at which point, I consider the default lore after Gygax as something to be disregarded for Greyhawk and and the same for anything beginning with and following the the Time of Troubles for Forgotten Realms).

And since you do not care about a shared experience then of course I (or anyone else not directly involved with the game) will not need to care what happens once you get your hands on the "Curse of Stradh" for example.

My own preference is for the the DM to homebrew their own settings. As such, I want the DM to come up with their own ideas of how monsters work and not feel beholden to a design teams particular vision of a monster (e.g. dragon breath weapons and alignment by color). Then again, I also personally have never cared for the whole shared experience, consider the idea of an "official WOTC story team" an anathema, and would pass on a campaign using an adventure path or "canned" adventure.

I remember amusing anecdotes of players turning up to play 2e with a new DM and being given a Folder full of house rules to learn before they could play. Now obviously that DM knows what they like and has completely adjusted everything to suit themselves but at what point do you stop playing 2e and start playing Bobs fantasy heartbreaker RPG?

The other problem is that the DM acts as the lens through which the players view the campaign world and there is a disconnect between what the characters would know and what the players know. If the DM starts talking about his version of Trolls that turn out not to be DnD Trolls then it falls on the DM to adequately describe the Trolls in such a way that a DM using Trolls from the MM would not have to. In some ways it may be easier to call them Chazzwazzers rather then trying to re-purpose the word "Troll".

 

[Greg K]

If the DM starts talking about his version of Trolls that turn out not to be DnD Trolls then it falls on the DM to adequately describe the Trolls in such a way that a DM using Trolls from the MM would not have to. In some ways it may be easier to call them Chazzwazzers rather then trying to re-purpose the word "Troll".

And when, new players come into D&D and hear troll, most are not thinking Poul Anderson's version which is the basis for the D&D troll. They hear the world troll and are probably are thinking of the troll in "Billy Goats Gruff", the war troll from The Lord of the Rings movie, or the trolls The Hobbit movie which are completely different from Poul Anderson's version. So, by the same token, perhaps we should rename the D&D troll to something else.

 

[Remathilis]

And when, new players come into D&D and hear troll, most are not thinking Poul Anderson's version which is the basis for the D&D troll. They hear the world troll and are probably are thinking of the troll in "Billy Goats Gruff", the war troll from The Lord of the Rings movie, or the trolls The Hobbit movie which are completely different from Poul Anderson's version. So, by the same token, perhaps we should rename the D&D troll to something else.

The next version of D&D shouldn't just exercise lore, it should exercise the monster names as well! So next edition, it could look something like this.

Regenerating Monster
Large giant
Armor Class 15
Hit Points 84 (8d10 + 40)
Speed 30 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
18 (+4) 13 (+1) 20 (+5) 7 (-2) 9 (-1) 7 (-2)
Skills Perception +2
Senses darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 12
Languages Giant
Challenge 5 (1,800 XP)
Special Traits
Keen Smell: has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on smell.
Regeneration: Regains 10 hit points at the start of its turn. If it takes acid or fire damage (or whatever type of damage the DM wants), this trait doesn’t function at the start of the troll’s next turn. It dies only if it starts its turn with 0 hit points and doesn’t regenerate.
Actions
Multiattack: makes three attacks: one with its bite and two with its claws.
Bite: Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d6 + 4) piercing damage.
Claw: Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 11 (2d6 + 4) slashing damage.

 

[Greg K]

The next version of D&D shouldn't just exercise lore, it should exercise the monster names as well! So next edition, it could look something like this.

Regenerating Monster
Large giant
Armor Class 15
Hit Points 84 (8d10 + 40)
Speed 30 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
18 (+4) 13 (+1) 20 (+5) 7 (-2) 9 (-1) 7 (-2)
Skills Perception +2
Senses darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 12
Languages Giant
Challenge 5 (1,800 XP)
Special Traits
Keen Smell: has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on smell.
Regeneration: Regains 10 hit points at the start of its turn. If it takes acid or fire damage (or whatever type of damage the DM wants), this trait doesn’t function at the start of the troll’s next turn. It dies only if it starts its turn with 0 hit points and doesn’t regenerate.
Actions
Multiattack: makes three attacks: one with its bite and two with its claws.
Bite: Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d6 + 4) piercing damage.
Claw: Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 11 (2d6 + 4) slashing damage.

or we could rename it to Anderson Troll, Gygaxian Troll, Greyhawk Troll, or Regenerating Troll, and have other trolls resembling those from both Tolkein and European fairy tales