D&D 5E Warlocks and Hex and the "daily morning short rest"

[stoloc]

A couple of solutions come to mind to solve this "problem".
1 allow hex to be used at the begining of the day without a target and transferred to targets as needed throughout the day
2 make hex a class ability for Warlock as it was in 4.0

I'd probably go with choice 2 in a game I ran.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I specifically allowed my warlock player to kill a rat and meditate afterwards. Of course he does not want the other pcs or even players know that he is doing that.

 

[Arial Black]

I allow warlocks to keep hex active with no enemy present but they can't cast it without an an enemy present. I also would not return the spell slot if the warlock had an active hex and kept it active through a SR. He could keep hex active through a SR but he would be down one spell slot on the other side of the SR. Anything else would not make sense. The warlocks spells are based on powers he draws from some divine being. Any time his hex is active he is drawing on those powers and thus they would not get rejuvinated .... in other words if he keeps his hex he is still using that "slot" even though it was cast it was before the SR.

As for the bag of rats; I would not allow a warlock to cast hex on that rat at all. To his patron this would seem like an extremely trivial use of the power he granted, as such he would withold it (maybe even taking the slot and doing nothing to penalize the player).

Those are truly awful nerfs which have no basis apart from your own whim. If my DM did that to me then he wouldn't be my DM any longer.

The rules for spell duration are clear. Hex is a concentration/max 1/8/24 hours.

The rules for Pact Magic slots is that they come back on a short rest.

There is no rule that even suggests that spell slots of any type don't refresh if the duration of a spell you cast hasn't run out yet.

You can cast hex (duration 24 hours) and death ward (duration 8 hours) and then rest. One short rest and one hour later, hex has 23 hours left, death ward has 7 hours left, and you have 2 slots ready to cast more stuff.

I also must point out that you don't need to kill anything in order to move hex. All that is required is that the hexed creature is reduced to zero hit points. From that point onward, even if the creature gains hit points, you can move hex to a new creature using your bonus action.

If you want to be silly about it you can keep a spider in a box, hex it, stamp on the box, take advantage of the rule about being able to declare that a melee attack that takes a creature to zero hp can just knock it unconscious instead, cast mending on the box, and then have a short rest. Might as well cast death ward while you're at it, if you have the Undying patron.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

We are not used to metagame the rules to that level, and I probably wouldn't allow it, as I believe beginning a short rest just after finishing a long one is silly, no matter why. But if you're fine with that, I don't see anything in the rules preventing it. Also, I'm one of those who believe that making hunter's mark and hex into spells created a "spell tax" for rangers and warlocks; they should either work as class features (if the increased damage output is expected as part of class performance) or be replaced by more interesting effects.

 

[Henry]

I think such a problem has a very simple, out of character solution: as the ladies &gents from Happy Jack's podcast like to say, it's time for a Grownup Conversation at the table about rules abuse, about everyone not being a jerk, and about using abilities clearly how they were intended, and keeping a combat spell like hex running for hours and hours by transferring it to a series of non-combatants like other PCs or caged animals clearly applies.

Is it because the DM is refusing to offer sufficient opportunities for short rests? Is it because the player in question just likes pushing the rules to see how far they can take it? It's best for the whole table to participate and resolve it rather than rules one-upmanship or in-game punishments.

 

[Arial Black]

I think such a problem has a very simple, out of character solution: as the ladies &gents from Happy Jack's podcast like to say, it's time for a Grownup Conversation at the table about rules abuse, about everyone not being a jerk, and about using abilities clearly how they were intended, and keeping a combat spell like hex running for hours and hours by transferring it to a series of non-combatants like other PCs or caged animals clearly applies.

It is clearly intended that hex be part of a warlock's DPR (if this is the spell he wants to use his concentration on). It is intended to last 1, 8 or 24 hours, and intended to still be running after the warlock takes a short rest.

Making up fluff reasons just to deny the warlock his intended DPR is not a grown-up response. A grown-up DM would not be offended by the warlock actually getting his intended DPR or by the warlock refreshing his slots on a short rest while hex is still running.

If the DM is offended by the idea of casting hex on a spider, then the solution is not to nerf the warlock's intended DPR and short rest slots, but to rule that the warlock can cast it at 'nothing' just to get his intended DPR going while still letting the warlock have both his slots. This will save all the imaginary vermin that concern the DM so.

 

[Arial Black]

On the subject of 'not allowing a short rest after a long rest (and some casting)', it's not that the players must 'declare' that the PCs are 'going to take a short rest now' in order to get one!

All that is required is that you don't do anything stressful for an hour. Therefore, ask your DM, "Have we done anything stressful in the last hour?" If the answer is 'no', then you have already had a short rest and regain short rest abilities and may use hit dice.

The benefits of a short rest are not gained by DM fiat but by simply avoiding stressful exertion for an hour. If you have, then you did!

How would you feel if in the middle of a game of chess your opponent suddenly announced that knights cannot jump over pawns? you! Changing the rules like this has a name: 'cheating'!

If you are in the middle of what you believe to be a game of 5E and the DM suddenly springs a surprise on you that resting for an hour does not give you the benefit of a short rest, just to mess with the warlock, this is not a mature response. It is cheating!

 

[Henry]

It is clearly intended that hex be part of a warlock's DPR (if this is the spell he wants to use his concentration on). It is intended to last 1, 8 or 24 hours, and intended to still be running after the warlock takes a short rest.
.

We'll have to agree to disagree, because no, it's not. It's meant to be part of their DPR for a combat, sure, but not all day long; if it were, then it would be built into the class features, the same way that extra attacks are built into the fighter, or the eldritch blast cantrip is specifically listed as a cantrip, and infinitely reusable. By it being a spell slot resource, it is situational, and once per rest. Note that mage armor is a possible invocation, and it's reusable at all times for the warlock; if the designers had meant for Hex to be part of the warlock's repertoire at all times, it would be an invocation or feature.

But then, that's why table discussions are important! It's better to discuss this rather than having to try to pull some trick to infinitely expand a resource, the way some 3.x D&D spells are done.

On the subject of 'not allowing a short rest after a long rest (and some casting)', it's not that the players must 'declare' that the PCs are 'going to take a short rest now' in order to get one!

All that is required is that you don't do anything stressful for an hour. Therefore, ask your DM, "Have we done anything stressful in the last hour?" If the answer is 'no', then you have already had a short rest and regain short rest abilities and may use hit dice.

The benefits of a short rest are not gained by DM fiat but by simply avoiding stressful exertion for an hour. If you have, then you did!

How would you feel if in the middle of a game of chess your opponent suddenly announced that knights cannot jump over pawns? you! Changing the rules like this has a name: 'cheating'!

If you are in the middle of what you believe to be a game of 5E and the DM suddenly springs a surprise on you that resting for an hour does not give you the benefit of a short rest, just to mess with the warlock, this is not a mature response. It is cheating!

On the concept of short rests just happening as opposed to declaring them, i'll give you that one - it's not clear cut , and makes sense to me. On the other hand, there have been discussions about DMs who do act like jerks and disallow a single hour's peace at any time, even in hostile but not imminently dangerous terrain. That is being unfair, and not allowing rules as intended. But it is situational. Would you allow a short rest as DM in the middle of an active battlefield? How about in an enemy complex where the PCs have put the foes on high alert? Those I could easily see as being situations where more than two minutes' peace is not granted.

 

[bedir than]

How does the Warlock maintain Concentration while resting? Isn't Concentration hefty mental exertion?

 

[Harzel]

How does the Warlock maintain Concentration while resting? Isn't Concentration hefty mental exertion?

Yeah, this. For me it is not the fact that Hex is running during the rest, it is the fact that it is a Concentration spell. Death Ward, ok; Hex, not so much. (Although actually, it hasn't actually come up for me yet.)