D&D 5E Warlocks and Hex and the "daily morning short rest"

[DEFCON 1]

I don't know, torturing rats seems pretty well in line with the attitude of many patrons...

Yeah, for a little kid. But a fully-functioning adult should have set their sights a little higher than messing around with lab experiments by then.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

The Hex spell is a Warlock staple. It lasts for a long time, and needs Concentration to maintain.

As worded, it is clear that the spell can be moved from one target to another if the first target dies. What is not as clear is whether or not the Hex can be moved minutes or hours after a target dies, or ONLY immediately afterward.

It IS clear that the spell needs an initial target, but clever players will want to pull the old "Long Rest, then cast Hex, then Short Rest" routine and will find clever ways of doing so (the old bag of rats, for example).

I see this with other classes too -- the shadow monk's "YOU get Darkvision, and YOU get Darkvision, and YOU get Darkvision -- and now we do our daily morning short rest!"

What do you do with this (for the warlock and hex, specifically)? It smells like a rules abuse, but OTOH Hex DOES use up Concentration and the spell CAN be lost before it is ever used if the warlock takes damage before he can act. Do you just waive the target requirement because you do not want to deal with bag of rats nonsense?

I have absolutely no problem with the Shadow Monk scenario. So you have a lazy breakfast every morning--fine, no skin off my nose. That's what you get for having a Shadow Monk in the party.

I have some problems with the warlock/hex version (and note that you can kill the rat immediately after Hexing it, and still maintain the ability to re-assign the Hex later), but those problems are roleplaying problems, not balance problems. I'd look askance at someone who kills a rat every single morning just on the off-chance that they might get in a deadly fight with someone sometime before mid-afternoon. I'd worry a lot less about his emotional ability if he did this only when he was about to go on a deadly mission of some kind like raiding a mind flayer colony and needed every advantage he could get.

 

[Blue]

The duration of the spell *very strongly* implies that the spell can be transferred hours later. Why would the spell last hours otherwise?

The *real* question for me is "is it ok to cast it in the morning and then take a short rest right away to get the spell slot back".

I'm with you that you can transfer it later based on the upcast duration.

Some parties might have a problem killing an innocent creature every morning. Definitely a flavorful reminder that you have bartered away your soul or firstborn or something for power. Don't forget the logistics of keeping them alive in the world of AoEs.

 

[Caliban]

If you really want to go out of your way to justify it, have a warlock who is proficient in Survival and Cooking tools. They get up a little early, kill a small woodland creature (or possibly a chicken they purchase at the market if they are in town) and make breakfast for everyone. The necrotic damage just adds a little extra flavor to the meat. Works really well if your patron is Arch Fey.

 

[WarpedAcorn]

I'm with you that you can transfer it later based on the upcast duration.

Some parties might have a problem killing an innocent creature every morning. Definitely a flavorful reminder that you have bartered away your soul or firstborn or something for power. Don't forget the logistics of keeping them alive in the world of AoEs.

Honestly the flavor of a Warlock casting a "ritual" every morning that involves sacrificing a living creature and then meditating on it for an hour is pretty solid.

 

[Zardnaar]

Hex is a bonus action to cast anyway. I simply cannot understand whh on earth you would go through all the bag of rats nonsense to conserve one bonus action.

Its the spell slot. You only get 2 spells at low levels so you get a spell back.

 

[auburn2]

I allow warlocks to keep hex active with no enemy present but they can't cast it without an an enemy present. I also would not return the spell slot if the warlock had an active hex and kept it active through a SR. He could keep hex active through a SR but he would be down one spell slot on the other side of the SR. Anything else would not make sense. The warlocks spells are based on powers he draws from some divine being. Any time his hex is active he is drawing on those powers and thus they would not get rejuvinated .... in other words if he keeps his hex he is still using that "slot" even though it was cast it was before the SR.

As for the bag of rats; I would not allow a warlock to cast hex on that rat at all. To his patron this would seem like an extremely trivial use of the power he granted, as such he would withold it (maybe even taking the slot and doing nothing to penalize the player).

With those two things in mind the only reason to keep hex active through an SR would be to save the BA on the first round of casting for something else. This could have a very limited corner use where you knew you would be fighting and were planning an attack shortly after the SR and wanted to do another BA on the first round of combat but most of the time you will be better letting it drop and getting the spell slot.

 

[Belltent]

Honestly the flavor of a Warlock casting a "ritual" every morning that involves sacrificing a living creature and then meditating on it for an hour is pretty solid.

This.

Great idea.

Anyways, don't penalize your players, people, it's one spell slot. I just had to leave a game cuz the dm kept making half my spells not work. That's obviously an extreme example but that stuff adds up.

On a related note, the misinformation about how hex and hunters mark work still astounds me. "Subsequent" turns does not mean the next immediate turn. Mearls and Crawford have repeatedly clarified that intent.

 

[Rocksome]

Almost everyone seems to be missing the OPs point, which is the fact that after casting Hex, you can short rest and get the slot back. Which means you have 1 active spell you are concentrating on and 2 slots free. Essentially giving yourself a 50% slot bonus.

I don't have a problem with it really, the 5e concentration rules typically make it so that casters do not get the full duration out of their spells, at least in my game.

If I was concerned I'd just state that you cannot rest your mind and recover spell slots while concentrating on a spell.

 

[Duan'duliir]

Here's a rule that can be implemented to curb the abuse: need to have at least 2 encounters between each rest (and 3 short rests between long rests)

- Zynx, from the EN World mobile app