D&D (2024) They butchered the warlock in the new packet

[Azzy]

I think /Pact of the Chain makes sense as a cantrip - instead of a feature that allows the warlock to cast Find Familiar in a special way that significantly changes its functionality, just directly giving them a spell with the desired functionality makes sense, and frees the designers of the constraints of having to use Find Familiar as the baseline.

I agree with this.

Pact of the Blade also works fine as a cantrip in my opinion. The main function when you first gain the pact boon is to allow the warlock to magically summon a special weapon at-will. Magically doing things at-will is exactly what cantrips are for, so sure, that works, and the structure of Cantrips already includes an “at higher levels” feature, making it easy to work the 5th level extra attack directly into the pact boon instead of needing an additional class feature.

My gripe about Pact of the Blade being a cantrip is that it doesn't let you transform a magical weapon into you pact blade.

Pact of the Tome makes a lot less sense as a cantrip. It’s a book that gives you access to three Cantrips and some number of ritual spells. Really, the “at higher levels” structural feature of Cantrips seems like the only reason to go this direction with it.

Agreed.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I just didn't see the point in making the Pact Boons into Cantrips It seems rather unintuitive to make them spells instead of them remaining class features. (Then again, I also think that making Fighting Styles into feats instead of just being a class feature seems strange.)

Making fighting styles into feats makes some sense so you don't have to print the silly things out for fighter, ranger, paladin, College of Swords, and anyone else especially if you add new ones. I'm not sure I agree with it, especially for newbies, but there is actually sense and logic there

Making Pact Boons into cantrips serves no such purpose. As something that's warlock only and for all warlocks and is only a short list it belongs in the warlock section.

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

It seems like bad policy making everything that is magical into a spell.

In my opinion the core focus should be: Is this spell class-defining and low level, then make it into a class feature. Eldritch blast qualifies here. It should only belong to warlocks because it has always defined the class, and it is low level enough that every warlock will want to have it.

I mean if you want to go as far as to make everything possible into a spell then there's no reason why other class features also should not be made into a separate system of features. Spells kinda bypass the class system. There's no reason to go too far with spells.

 

[Remathilis]

It seems like bad policy making everything that is magical into a spell.

In my opinion the core focus should be: Is this spell class-defining and low level, then make it into a class feature. Eldritch blast qualifies here. It should only belong to warlocks because it has always defined the class, and it is low level enough that every warlock will want to have it.

I mean if you want to go as far as to make everything possible into a spell then there's no reason why other class features also should not be made into a separate system of features. Spells kinda bypass the class system. There's no reason to go too far with spells.

How about we go one further; if it doesn't affect multiple classes, it's a class feature.

Eldritch blast and hex? Class feature.
Hunter's Mark? Class feature.
Viscous mockery? Class feature.
All the Smite spells? Class features.
Find Familiar and Find Steed? Class features.
Chaos bolt, etc? You get the idea.

 

[mamba]

How about we go one further; if it doesn't affect multiple classes, it's a class feature

if it is a class specific spell, then there is no real distinction between that and a class feature. I agree they all should be limited to one class though

 

[Neonchameleon]

How about we go one further; if it doesn't affect multiple classes, it's a class feature.

Eldritch blast and hex? Class feature.
Hunter's Mark? Class feature.
Viscous mockery? Class feature.
All the Smite spells? Class features.
Find Familiar and Find Steed? Class features.
Chaos bolt, etc? You get the idea.

If it doesn't affect multiple classes and is intended to be a key part of the class then make it a class feature. Eldritch Blast, Hex, Hunter's Mark, the Smite Spells, Find Familiar and Find Steed should all be class features - and in previous editions most of their forerunners were.

The two outliers are Vicious Mockery and Chaos Bolt. Not every bard should be performing flytings or diss tracks and not every sorcerer should be producing random effects. Therefore not class features (unless Chaos Bolt becomes a Wild Magic subclass feature)

 

[Charlaquin]

All the Smite spells?

I feel like there’s a Blink 182 reference in here somewhere…

 

[Shardstone]

I think Pact of the Chain makes sense as a cantrip - instead of a feature that allows the warlock to cast Find Familiar in a special way that significantly changes its functionality, just directly giving them a spell with the desired functionality makes sense, and frees the designers of the constraints of having to use Find Familiar as the baseline.

Pact of the Blade also works fine as a cantrip in my opinion. The main function when you first gain the pact boon is to allow the warlock to magically summon a special weapon at-will. Magically doing things at-will is exactly what cantrips are for, so sure, that works, and the structure of Cantrips already includes an “at higher levels” feature, making it easy to work the 5th level extra attack directly into the pact boon instead of needing an additional class feature.

Pact of the Tome makes a lot less sense as a cantrip. It’s a book that gives you access to three Cantrips and some number of ritual spells. Really, the “at higher levels” structural feature of Cantrips seems like the only reason to go this direction with it.

Tbh, I find that Pact of the Tome as a cantrip is revolutionary. The idea of being able to turn spellbooks into cantrips is a very interesting idea. If maximized a bit more, you could have it so wizards etc learn the cantrip needed to summon a special spellbook, and at certain levels, the cantrip adds more spells to your spell list while the book is summoned. Now you can summon different books for different situations.

Alternatively, the cantrips could just give you a bonus when casting the spells you learned from the spellbook. Let's say "Tasha's Spellbook" (cantrip) adds Tasha's Hideous Laughter to your spell list permanently (if you don't have it already). When cast while the cantrip is activated, it could be automatically upcast, or it could have some other bonus, or maybe a new rider is added to its effect. A character is still limited by how many cantrips they can know, while the wizard can add spellbooks to THEIR spellbook. Sounds weird, I know, but idk, it sounds really rad in my mind, and adds a new layer to the idea of spellbooks, collecting arcane lore, etc.

Maximized even more, you could have holy symbols turned into cantrips too. Learn how to conjure the holy symbol of the Raven Queen and you gain access to her spells while its conjured or get a bonus for using spells you got from learning this cantrip.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

It seems like bad policy making everything that is magical into a spell.

In my opinion the core focus should be: Is this spell class-defining and low level, then make it into a class feature. Eldritch blast qualifies here. It should only belong to warlocks because it has always defined the class, and it is low level enough that every warlock will want to have it.

I mean if you want to go as far as to make everything possible into a spell then there's no reason why other class features also should not be made into a separate system of features. Spells kinda bypass the class system. There's no reason to go too far with spells.

Too far with spells? If the ability works well as being cast a flexible numer of times, as with spell slots, or as a cantrip, and would benefit from the spell structure (borrowing all the rules of the spell system like action, duration, effect, whether it counts as magic/a spell for certain types of abilities), then why not create it as a spell, and lean on that existing system? The design has to be written anyway. You either place it in the spell section with similar designs, or you add the ability, plus all relevant side rules that answer the relevant questions into the class write-up, padding the page count of that section.
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As a comparison, I'd rather have a class ability or monster stat block reference a spell to look up, rather than write up that entire spell in the class or monster stat block.

 

[Vaalingrade]

That'd be the problem. All the wasteful cross-refernceing and unintended consequences like the ability to counterspell flamboyant combat styles or owning a book.