House Rule : Everyone gets a free at-will : would it break anything?

[Tony Vargas]

Fighter very rarely uses an at-will,

There's just something awesome about being able to say something like that, compared to every other fighter implementation in D&D. :sigh:

but if he does it is most often Footwork Lure (which is buffed by feats, items etc to allow knocking prone) but he also uses Weapon Master's Strike (from Dragon magazine) that lets him switch between weapons, and gives a small damage buff with axe.

I'm a little amazed that second one was ever picked by anyone, let alone sees use at Epic. Does he have a Dynamic Weapon or something?

 

[darkbard]

I'm a little amazed that second one was ever picked by anyone, let alone sees use at Epic. Does he have a Dynamic Weapon or something?

Having just finished reading his game posts, I think I can answer this with confidence: he sometimes switches between his primary weapon (a polearm) and the Sword of Kas. Please correct me if I'm wrong, [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]!

 

[pemerton]

There's just something awesome about being able to say something like that, compared to every other fighter implementation in D&D. :sigh:

I'm a little amazed that second one was ever picked by anyone, let alone sees use at Epic. Does he have a Dynamic Weapon or something?

Having just finished reading his game posts, I think I can answer this with confidence: he sometimes switches between his primary weapon (a polearm) and the Sword of Kas. Please correct me if I'm wrong, [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]!

It's actually the paladin who mostly uses a bloodthirsty (? buff vs bloodied) khopesh (with Turathi weapon training feat), but who sometime swaps to the Sword of Kas (eg to fight Vecna-ites; to make his friends worried he's going to turncoat!).

The fighter has a superior halberd (house-ruled weapon) and a mordenkraad (Overwhelm) - he uses the polearm for reach and Second Wind (it's a defensive weapon) and uses the mordenkraad for damage. Both buffed by Dwarven Weapon Master.

He uses a Heward's Handy Haversack to carry his weapons, and we are happy to allow (as a house rule or a ruling - take your pick) that the free weapon swap power lets him stow and draw from the Haversack.

 

[darkbard]

Well, there you go: straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak)! I knew one of the PCs did some weapon swapping, and, of course, it would be the paladin wielding the Sword of Kas, not the fighter.

It's funny ... up until this moment, when I checked the mechanics in the Compendium, I believed the name of the item was Heward's HH ... not realizing that 4E dropped the proper name! The things that stick with us from decades of previous editions....

I think your ruling on the interaction of the Haversack and WMS's effect makes great sense. (Not that you need my approval for how you run your game....)

 

[isaquelazaro]

I personally like to hinder my players' options, so I'd keep the official number of at-wills. I don't think it would break some martial characters, but I think the wizard would be really empowered by this.
If the DM's table can work well with empowered pcs, I don't see any problem at all. Not my cup of tea, but no abomination either, I guess.

 

[MwaO]

I think having looked over it, here are areas of concern:
Wizards get the 3rd at-will. They have a lot of good choices and sometimes having that 3rd choice would be really great.

Hybrids. This would be really awesome for them. When a class has two great at-wills, but it can't make it happen.

Immediate-heavy builds get a 3rd choice. Swordmage, Str/Dex Rangers, etc...assume that from an optimized perspective, most builds would want a 2 encounter nova+2 immediate actions. After round 1, they're using at-wills - so this represents a power up to some optimized builds.

Psionics. This should only be an at-will, not augmentable.

I'd probably also give Half-Elves both Dilettante & whatever the new ability is. They still need to spend a feat to make it at-will, but this way works similar to Humans.

 

[Garthanos]

I think having looked over it, here are areas of concern:
Wizards get the 3rd at-will. They have a lot of good choices and sometimes having that 3rd choice would be really great.

I like the sense of versatility gained but others have pointed out that character specialization seems to overwhelm that value

Hybrids. This would be really awesome for them. When a class has two great at-wills, but it can't make it happen.

Love hybrids myself a third at-will would make many designs better from a flavor perspective

Immediate-heavy builds get a 3rd choice. Swordmage, Str/Dex Rangers, etc...assume that from an optimized perspective, most builds would want a 2 encounter nova+2 immediate actions. After round 1, they're using at-wills - so this represents a power up to some optimized builds.

Hmmm so they end up using at-wills more than other designs even at higher levels? and the higher choice benefit will be noticeable? or is that ranger still gonna smack down with twin strike.

Psionics. This should only be an at-will, not augmentable.

Have no psionic playing players but thanks for the reminder ( need to get my head wrapped around augmentables)

I'd probably also give Half-Elves both Dilettante & whatever the new ability is. They still need to spend a feat to make it at-will, but this way works similar to Humans.

With a feat they would swimming in them at-wills eh.

 

[MwaO]

Hmmm so they end up using at-wills more than other designs even at higher levels? and the higher choice benefit will be noticeable? or is that ranger still gonna smack down with twin strike.

A Str Ranger can get Twin Strike, Throw & Stab & spend a feat on the Hunter area RBA attack. But Rangers aren't the only immediate heavy builds - Swordmages, Battleminds, Warlocks, etc...can all load up and Hybrids in particular can too - a Swordmage|Warlock now often gets Booming Blade and Eldritch Strike. But with an extra at-will picks up Hellish Rebuke.

That gives a whole other range of options.

With a feat they would swimming in them at-wills eh.

I'd make the Half-Elf option as "Get both options, lose the extra at-will, but keep the dilettante *or* get dilettante and extra at-will."

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

My REAL concern is just clutter. 4e PCs end up with so much 'stuff' that its gotten rather hard to slog through. PHB1-era 4e seemed about right, but post-Essentials era 4e with Themes, Power of Skill, hybrids, etc etc etc and some of the class builds that have a lot of class features (Artificer is a particularly burdensome one) plus the shear number of other feats that add various things. Its just gotten to be a little embarrassing.

 

[Tony Vargas]

PHB1-era 4e seemed about right, but post-Essentials era 4e with Themes, Power of Skill, hybrids, etc etc etc

Tangent, but: I'm running Epic right now, and I can't help but notice who the on-line CB cheerfully spits out Race, Class(sub-class) & Theme, but leaves out, almost peevishly it seems, PP & ED. Not coincidentally, at least some of the Essentials classes had a default PP 'built in.'

So, was post-E perhaps not so much a case of proliferating options, as re-focusing options on the Heroic Tier?