D&D (2024) Comeliness and Representation in Recent DnD Art

[Cadence]

Two not necessarily related things:

(1) I am very happy that the range of characters shown in the official D&D art is much more inclusive in just about every sense than it used to be (appearances akin to the variety of IRL racial/ethnic groups, breaking streotypical gender roles, everyone gets practical clothes, dare I mention glasses, etc...).

(2) I am very happy DnD ditched physical attractiveness being tied to Charisma with 4e and 5e.

A recent thread touching on (1) made me wonder a bit about its intersection with (2). What are the examples in the WotC D&D art of young adult human protagonists who don't fit with the Hollywood stereotypes of human physical attractiveness?

Do we have young adult human characters of all classes that are portrayed heroically but are significantly above or below the BMI recommendations? Who don't appear to be particularly athletic? Who have acne or acne scars? Who have non-combat induced scars? Who have obvious vitiligo or hemangioma? Who don't look like they've had braces on their teeth earlier in life? Who look like they wouldn't be cast as a sorority or fraternity member in a stereotypical movie of the sort?

If there aren't, are there any reasons not to? Does it feel awkward to even look through the art to try and locate ones that you don't think fit what others think of as conventionally attractive? Why is this all so hard?

[I had no idea where to shove this prefix wise, so put in where the thread that inspired it was at.]

 

[ezo]

dare I mention glasses

No, no you did NOT go there!

 

[aco175]

I do not have a problem looking at good looking people in art they show in the books.

 

[Cadence]

I do not have a problem looking at good looking people in art they show in the books.

That people in general don't seems to drive much of modern media. What is left out by the common "good looking" stereotype? If they're missing now, would it be bad if the people in the art looked a bit more like more of the actual players than their hollywood stand-ins?

 

[Cadence]

@Clint_L You deal with a lot of young folks gaming, right? Certainly more than the small group I do. Are there any things you think they would like to see more of about themselves? Anythings they really wouldn't? (Feel free to ignore, but I was struggling to think of who might have a broad, experienced, good perspective on it and you "won").

 

[Crimson Longinus]

That people in general don't seems to drive much of modern media. What is left out by the common "good looking" stereotype? If they're missing now, would it be bad if the people in the art looked a bit more like more of the actual players than their hollywood stand-ins?

I'm not sure majority of people would actually like that. Like would most people like it more if movies were not predominantly cast with above average looking people? I honestly I don't think so. What it says of us I don't know. People are sometimes contradictory. We want representation, but we still like looking at pretty people too. We want the Hollywood version of us.

Also, I think most artists prefer drawing good looking people, or striking looking people, or if ugly, then cool monstrously ugly. But they don't like drawing just plain normal looking people. Is that shallow? Possibly. But I fully confess that it is true for me.

 

[aco175]

That people in general don't seems to drive much of modern media. What is left out by the common "good looking" stereotype? If they're missing now, would it be bad if the people in the art looked a bit more like more of the actual players than their hollywood stand-ins?

The art is to portray the classes and people in the game and not the people that play the game. I would rather have pictures of brave warriors and sly rogues fighting giants and such over pictures of overweight nerds sitting around a table rolling dice, or worse, wearing armor and swinging swords.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The art is to portray the classes and people in the game and not the people that play the game. I would rather have pictures of brave warriors and sly rogues fighting giants and such over pictures of overweight nerds sitting around a table rolling dice, or worse, wearing armor and swinging swords.

This is a strawman.

The brave warriors and sly rogues and giants could have a diversity of body types, ethnicities, abilities, and traits that are not in line with a "good looking" stereotype.

You don't need to body shame players to recognize that basic truth.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

And I want to be absolutely clear, I am not in any way arguing against representation like it is commonly understood. There should definitely be diversity of ethnicities, body types, and all sort of other personal features (yes, even glasses!) But the fantasy art is still probably going to be some sort of "yassified" cool and glamorous version.

 

[ezo]

Two not necessarily related things:

(1) I am very happy that the range of characters shown in the official D&D art is much more inclusive in just about every sense than it used to be (appearances akin to the variety of IRL racial/ethnic groups, breaking streotypical gender roles, everyone gets practical clothes, dare I mention glasses, etc...).

(2) I am very happy DnD ditched physical attractiveness being tied to Charisma with 4e and 5e.

Ok, so with point (1) I think it is a good thing but honestly I feel like WotC is almost over-compensating with it at times. Now, before anyone wants to discuss this point, know beforehand I am not discussing it further.

As to point (2), I remember Comliness from AD&D. IMO there is a big difference between physical attractiveness and physical beauty. For example, I see women who I can acknowledge are physically "beautiful", but I do not find "attractive" at all.

When we look at ability scores in 5E, we see them in the light that they can be improved. It is hard to improve on physical beauty, and as for attraction--well, people like what they like and there really is no understanding it. I always have preferred women I date to have something "different" about them, something others might not find attractive, but I do.

A recent thread touching on (1) made me wonder a bit about its intersection with (2). What are the examples in the WotC D&D art of young adult human protagonists who don't fit with the Hollywood stereotypes of human physical attractiveness?

Nothing I can think of, off-hand. I wish we did.

Do we have young adult human characters of all classes that are portrayed heroically but are significantly above or below the BMI recommendations? Who don't appear to be particularly athletic? Who have acne or acne scars? Who have non-combat induced scars? Who have obvious vitiligo or hemangioma? Who don't look like they've had braces on their teeth earlier in life? Who look like they wouldn't be cast as a sorority or fraternity member in a stereotypical movie of the sort?

If there aren't, are there any reasons not to? Does it feel awkward to even look through the art to try and locate ones that you don't think fit what others think of as conventionally attractive? Why is this all so hard?

Well, I think there are reasons not to. Some are admittedly distasteful but they are there.

Now, I'll give you an example from my first D&D game. One of the PCs was a Dragonborn Sorcerer, not particularly tall, but weighed over 300 lbs IIRC. Since he had a STR 10, the DM said the PC was "fat" (that high BMI you mention), and the player laughed a bit (he is a VERY skinny guy!), and to be clear it wasn't because he finds fat funny, it was because he knew he couldn't relate to being that way. Still, he went with it, but asked the DM if his PC could "lose weight". The reason being as he adventured more, he felt he would naturally reduce his weight (walking everywhere, being generally more physically active, etc. The DM and player worked out a system, and I think the PC lost something like 60-80 lbs over the course of our 1-20 level campaign. I recall at 12th or 16th levels, the player actually spent his ASI to increase his STR +2, to represent all the exercise, muscle gain, etc.

People in poor health for whatever reason, or other conditions which could interfere with the typical rigors of adventuring, would have a hard time as adventurers. A lot of people don't like to think about the challenges such people face IRL, so don't want it in a fantasy game, either.

As much as many people might not like it, a lot of players relate to the "medieval" history (or other ages) of our world. Historically, many cultures in the past (even recently) would kill infants with obvious disabilities, thinking these children were inferior, etc.

What is most unfortunate IMO, is when someone has a disability and is identified by it, others overlook the many qualities such an individual might have. I remember when I was teaching, and another teacher had a 5-yo daughter with a severe mental disability, something that would likely be fatal at some point. It was amazing that this little girl knew and understood what was going on in her life, and she was so full of life, energy, and happiness it was contagious! In a big way it made me ashamed of myself. I like to think I've helped a lot of people as a teacher, children in summer schools, inmates getting their GEDs or dipolmas in prison, teaching overseas. But this little girl made me question being a teacher. I felt like I would have better served humankind if I had become a doctor and researched for cures for such conditions. Who knows, maybe I would have found a cure for her before it was too late.

(yes, even glasses!)

This is going to haunt me forever, isn't it?

It was good timing though, my post was getting too deep.