D&D 5E How to deal with Metagaming as a player?

[Maxperson]

I asked you a direct question. You've yet to dare answer it. But, who knows, maybe you'll answer it. Up to you.

You're really good at abusing the laugh button. Should I report that abuse?

 

[Corwin]

You're really good at abusing the laugh button. Should I report that abuse?

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds, sir!

 

[Maxperson]

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds, sir!
View attachment 81545

Once in response to one of your 6 or 7 laughs.

 

[Corwin]

Once in response to one of your 6 or 7 laughs.

Where's my other 5 or 6? XP is XP. I work hard for those!

 

[hawkeyefan]

Expert swordsmen did that. They didn't always want to kill their opponents. First blood and not to the death. Sound familiar?

So two people agreeing to a limited duel is the same as actual combat? And didn't people still die sometimes in such duels?

I wouldn't say this is a great counter argument.

And let me say, I don't even mind the rule. I allow it. I just realize how incredibly metagamey it is.

Then don't hack. More than one way to use a sword.

Yes, none of which is reliably non-lethal, for the most part. Especially not without mitigating circumstances such as surprise or something. But within life and death combat, trying to strike with the pommel or the flat of the blade effectively would be incredibly difficult.

You really think it's unreasonable for all the wood in a fire to be on fire?

No, that's not what I said.

A club is specially balanced and shaped for easy use. A random stick has low odds of being able to function well as a club.

Not all clubs. Some clubs are just hunks of branch. The kind that could conceivably be used for firewood.

Why would a stick in the fire be more at hand that the sword worn on the waist?

If someone was actively tending the fire and reacted quickly, they may just grab what's right in front of them. Same as if they were whittling wood. They may just swipe with their carving knife.

I would point out to the new player that his sword would be more a more effective weapon. The new player would most likely not follow through with the attempt to use the inferior fire stick. The fire stick is still the inferior weapon against the troll by the way. The troll is far more likely to kill and eat the PC while he plinks away at it with a stick than if he just beat it down with a much more damaging sword.

But this is over time. We are talking about the first round.

Picking up a dropped weapon is no more efficient than pulling one out of the sheath. Grabbing the stick out of the fire is the equivalent of picking up a dropped weapon. The only way it could be quicker is if it was already in hand.

Or if someone was tending the fire and was maybe seated or crouched down...or who, imagine this, had taken their sword belt off and rested it against a log a few feet away.

I'm sure immersive characters sleep in their armor and never don't have their weapon at the ready.

Fear and morale are mechanics. Show me the existing rule that says wolves in D&D are afraid of fire.

There is no such rule. It would be up to the DM to not be an imbecile and to have the animals act in a manner that made sense.

Incorrect. An archer can shoot AT a shoulder rather than the heart. Once the arrow is in flight, though, the archer cannot control the arrow OR the moving target, so the arrow can and often does strike where the archer didn't aim. A sword, however, can be altered in mid swing to take the movement of the target into account.

This is silly.

Sure it does. Blood loss often causes loss of consciousness.

And death.

If it's not cheating, then why the directive to discourage and curb the behavior?

Because they want to minimize it, but they realize it cannot be eliminated? I'm not entirely sure, honestly. But the better question would be if it is cheating, then why don't they describe it as such and say to never do it?

It's really so overly broad and vague that it's useless.

Well then why did you mention it as support for your argument?

 

[Corwin]

So two people agreeing to a limited duel is the same as actual combat? And didn't people still die sometimes in such duels?

Just try getting those wolves to agree to first blood! And don't you dare go into the encounter having pre-cast speak with animals. That would be metagaming!

 

[Guest 6801328]

@Maxperson: did you ever answer my question? If so, somehow I missed it in amidst the banter.

Here's another version of the same question:
1) Brand new player, literally first session, with zero metagame knowledge. (For example, doesn't even know the rules for detecting secret doors.)
2) No in-game information he could be acting on. (E.g., no hints that there might be a secret door.)
3) Picks an improbable action at exactly the right time. (E.g., deep in a dungeon without any of the experienced players having made any secret doors checks, he suddenly announces "I'm going to look for a secret door"...right when his mini is on the grid next to a secret door! Amazing.)

Do you allow this? Does it bother you?

Two simple Yes/No questions. Commentary also welcome, of course, but please don't change the details of the scenario.

 

[Maxperson]

@Maxperson: did you ever answer my question? If so, somehow I missed it in amidst the banter.

Here's another version of the same question:
1) Brand new player, literally first session, with zero metagame knowledge. (For example, doesn't even know the rules for detecting secret doors.)
2) No in-game information he could be acting on. (E.g., no hints that there might be a secret door.)
3) Picks an improbable action at exactly the right time. (E.g., deep in a dungeon without any of the experienced players having made any secret doors checks, he suddenly announces "I'm going to look for a secret door"...right when his mini is on the grid next to a secret door! Amazing.)

Do you allow this? Does it bother you?

Two simple Yes/No questions. Commentary also welcome, of course, but please don't change the details of the scenario.

I would allow it, but I'd also allow an experienced player to randomly pick a spot to search. And no, it wouldn't both me in either case. A character wandering the world might check a spot on the wall on a hunch. The issue for me is if the player knows there is a secret door there.

They can't unring the bell, so there's no way they can randomly search that section of wall on a hunch.

 

[Lanefan]

Sounds like you need a bigger stick!

But it better hadn't be on fire, or...well, you know...

 

[Lanefan]

This is the one and only definition of metagaming in 5e. It provides no other definition.

And maybe that's the problem everyone's having here...the 5e DMG just doesn't go into it deep enough and most people aren't looking anywhere else.

Someone upthread posted the 1e DMG take on it, which is much more complete - and specifically mentions (among other things) characters in different places being unable to communicate with each other as something to watch for.

Maybe start from that passage instead...at least there's more there to work with.

Lanefan