D&D 5E My tweak to make (Champion) Fighters decent

[FrogReaver]

Youre misintepreting his clarification.

He's not saying its n extra +1d8 normally, and an extra +2d8 when you smite. Its +1d8 to all attacks, including those with which you smite.

Ya always check out the quote first LOL.

 

[Flamestrike]

He explicitly answered "yes" when asked if the feature adds 2d8 total. So +1d8 on your attack, and another +1d8 when you smite. The misinterpretation is yours.

No man, the misinterpretation is yours. The extra d8 is from the divine smite itself.

He's discussing the extra d8 from smite against fiends, undead etc.

You're taking the clarification out of context.

 

[Gladius Legis]

No man, the misinterpretation is yours. The extra d8 is from the divine smite itself.

He's discussing the extra d8 from smite against fiends, undead etc.

You're taking the clarification out of context.

Wrong. Here's the tweet again. It's talking explicitly about Improved Divine Smite.

I know what I read. You either don't, or you never read it in the first place.

 

[S'mon]

Topic drift makes baby S'mon sad.

Anyway I get the impression few or no people here would dream of running a no-Feats game and that relatively few use the Champion Fighter subclass at all. So I guess this wasn't a great place to post.

 

[S'mon]

Gritty rest variant fixes all your problems.

It also makes Warlocks and Monks competitive in a game of rocket tag like yours where you a DM cant be bothered policing the 5 minute AD.

My Wilderlands PCs may spend several days or a week or a couple weeks at a time adventuring. Maybe they get into 1-2 fights in that time. They do lots of other stuff, like trekking across rugged hills, navigating the endless ocean to mysterious isles, flying winged steeds over high mountains, et al. And of course lots of meeting people and talking with them, discovering ancient relics of lost aeons, delving hidden mysteries of the forgotten past, etc.

 

[FrogReaver]

My Wilderlands PCs may spend several days or a week or a couple weeks adventuring. Maybe they get into 1-2 fights in that time. They do lots of other stuff, like trekking across rugged hills, navigating the endless ocean to mysterious isles, flying winged steeds over high mountains, et al. And of course lots of meeting people and talking with them, discovering ancient relics of lost aeons, delving hidden mysteries of the forgotten past, etc.

Your initial proposal we think is to strong. I made a suggestion that went overlooked.

For featless game, champion subclass gets its stat cap removed or increased. Instead of 20 max str maybe 24 or 28 or something. The battlemaster can grab extra battlemaster dice in place of an ASI. The EK can learn a new spell and gain a level 1 spell slot in place of an ASI

 

[Satyrn]

This is designed for my no-Feats game, but might be worth considering even in a Feats game,
especially one with fewer than 6-8 fights/day.

"Ability Score Improvement

When you reach 4th level, and again at 6th, 8th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two Ability Scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.
One of the level 8, 12, 14 or 16 Ability Score improvements may be replaced by an additional
use of Action Surge (max 2 surges).
The level 19 ASI may be replaced by an additional Fighting Style."

Main effect is that level 8-16 Fighters may surge twice per short rest, level 17 Fighters 3 times, and the level 19 boost is less underwhelming than +2 to a minor stat.

This looks good to me, especially considering you're not using feats and only the Champion.

(The fighting style seems pointless, but hey, that's only because it comes so late and I've never hit that point)

 

[S'mon]

Your initial proposal we think is to strong. I made a suggestion that went overlooked.

For featless game, champion subclass gets its stat cap removed or increased. Instead of 20 max str maybe 24 or 28 or something. The battlemaster can grab extra battlemaster dice in place of an ASI. The EK can learn a new spell and gain a level 1 spell slot in place of an ASI

You think 24 or 28 STR is weaker than an action surge?
I'm not sure about this, worth considering though, thanks. Maybe the last few ASIs could be uncapped. Would fit my son's hulking Dragonborn Fighter PC.

 

[S'mon]

This looks good to me, especially considering you're not using feats and only the Champion.

(The fighting style seems pointless, but hey, that's only because it comes so late and I've never hit that point)

You may be right re fighting style, depends on the PC I think. +2 DEX usually better than Defence style +1 AC.

Edit: I think I'll go with uncapped ASIs rather than extra Fighting Style for the last 2 ASIs.

Here's what I have now:

When you reach 4th level, and again at 6th, 8th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two Ability Scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.
One of the level 8, 12, or 14 Ability Score improvements may be replaced by an additional use of Action Surge (max 2 surges).
The level 16 & 19 Ability Score improvements may raise an Attribute above 20, but not above 24.

Thanks to the last two posters for useful input.

 

[FrogReaver]

You think 24 or 28 STR is weaker than an action surge?
I'm not sure about this, worth considering though, thanks. Maybe the last few ASIs could be uncapped. Would fit my son's hulking Dragonborn Fighter PC.

+2 str strength is about 20% increase in damage. The champion definitely needs improvement and I think stat cap increasing is right up his ally.