D&D 5E Differing opinions about 5e

[CydKnight]

So which is it? The game is too easy, too hard or just right? And if it is too easy, is it a function of optimizing (which would be a voluntary thing...).

It's both and neither. There are as many opinions about it as there are people playing. Those opinions will all be unique in their own way if only in minute varying degrees.

 

[Corwin]

I'll have to ask my players sometime if 5E is "too easy". Considering that last game I had an encounter where the barbarian and fighter were both knocked unconscious at one time or other and the other characters were beaten bloodied and bruised. According to the XP calculator I use (it ignores numbers of opponents) it was supposed to be a high-medium encounter.

Some of it was just luck, my dice were hot and theirs were cold.

Or in the game I played in where we tend to only have a handful of fights between long rests and my cleric had to use revivify and mass heal or we were looking at running away or a TPK. As it was, it was still close. It was intended to be a tough boss fight against one of the last of our major foes so it was appropriate.

To be fair, you are probably blessed to deal with casual players, suffering from poor-to-average luck, and who do not know how to apply amazing tactics...

 

[Corwin]

This still does not excuse how you need not to merely tweak encounters. You need to wholesale replace them.

I'm curious what you mean by that. Would you please clarify? Why must encounters be scrapped and entirely replaced, rather than just modified to fit the group playing?

 

[Dausuul]

Combat in 5E is neither easy nor hard; it depends entirely on what the DM throws at you.

5E's encounter building guidelines are calibrated to what I consider very easy, and monster CRs are very inconsistent.

I don't run published adventures, so I don't know how easy or hard the combats in those are.

 

[Redbadge]

I'm curious what you mean by that. Would you please clarify? Why must encounters be scrapped and entirely replaced, rather than just modified to fit the group playing?

I'm curious as well. Especially for published adventures, wouldn't it just be as simple as something like doubling the number of monsters, doubling their hit points, and doubling the amount of damage they deal (or tripling the number and damage)?

As an example encounter from Out of the Abyss, I think the PCs may encounter a handful of gnolls at around 12th level. If you know that this would be a laughably easy encounter, it takes seconds to bump up the numbers to represent a true horde of Yeenoghu, blessed by his appearance in the Underdark to all do triple damage and have triple health. Surely 40 or 50 of these buffed gnolls would provide a challenge.

 

[Oofta]

To be fair, you are probably blessed to deal with casual players, suffering from poor-to-average luck, and who do not know how to apply amazing tactics...

There is absolutely a large difference between optimized and non-optimized players and groups. I doesn't seem quite as bad as previous editions, but I haven't been doing enough AL stuff lately (where it becomes more obvious) to really tell for certain. The group certainly aren't the most optimal possible, but they are reasonably competent.

But bad tactics on the PCs part by splitting the party along with lucky rolls on my part when the demonically enhanced worgs knocked PCs prone every round to give their riders advantage on their attacks didn't help any.

 

[Corwin]

There is absolutely a large difference between optimized and non-optimized players and groups. I doesn't seem quite as bad as previous editions, but I haven't been doing enough AL stuff lately (where it becomes more obvious) to really tell for certain. The group certainly aren't the most optimal possible, but they are reasonably competent.

But bad tactics on the PCs part by splitting the party along with lucky rolls on my part when the demonically enhanced worgs knocked PCs prone every round to give their riders advantage on their attacks didn't help any.

Agreed. I think the real elephant in the room is probably the hard truth that some DMs are just flat out poor fits for the role. They fail to challenge a party because they lack the skills to apply encounters in effective and interesting ways. And so they blame the system, rather than their own shortcomings. or worse, refuse to confront their own unwillingness to improve themselves.

 

[Oofta]

I'm curious as well. Especially for published adventures, wouldn't it just be as simple as something like doubling the number of monsters, doubling their hit points, and doubling the amount of damage they deal (or tripling the number and damage)?

As an example encounter from Out of the Abyss, I think the PCs may encounter a handful of gnolls at around 12th level. If you know that this would be a laughably easy encounter, it takes seconds to bump up the numbers to represent a true horde of Yeenoghu, blessed by his appearance in the Underdark to all do triple damage and have triple health. Surely 40 or 50 of these buffed gnolls would provide a challenge.

I regularly do custom monsters, and don't underestimate the power of advantage that the gnolls get. Throw in reasonable tactics such as not attacking in fireball formation, have the bad guys show up in multiple waves and increase the numbers a bit. Upgrading monsters using the guidelines in the DMG is also pretty straightforward if you want to be official.

What may be a challenge for a novice group of 4 may not be a challenge for your group, and tactical play by the DM can make a huge difference. As an example, gnolls are supposed to be archer/snipers. So send in some low-level mooks to harass the PCs while the higher level gnolls snipe from cover getting advantage on their attacks.

There are many things a DM can do to increase the threat level, it's part of their job.

 

[Oofta]

Agreed. I think the real elephant in the room is probably the hard truth that some DMs are just flat out poor fits for the role. They fail to challenge a party because they lack the skills to apply encounters in effective and interesting ways. And so they blame the system, rather than their own shortcomings. or worse, refuse to confront their own unwillingness to improve themselves.

I think it could be an interesting thread. "How would you make this encounter more difficult?"

Have some examples of combats then discuss tactical options, enhancements for the monsters, effects of terrain and environment. Just not today because I need to go to work.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Agreed. I think the real elephant in the room is probably the hard truth that some DMs are just flat out poor fits for the role. .

Same elephant.