D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[Yunru]

I laughed at this post, but now I'm worried you might be serious.

Maybe, maybe not

 

[ccs]

Ive been DMing for many years now, and enjoy it very much. I just finished up Out of the Abyss, and it went great. However, it almost felt like we were "power gaming" by the end of the adventure path.

As I normally do with almost all my games, I allowed my players to roll their stats at the beginning of the game instead of using the point buy or standard array ability scores presented in the Players Handbook. However, during the course of the game, i often felt that i had to fluff monsters attacks, hit points, and damage just to keep up with the characters power surge.

Soon, i will be running the Tomb of Annihilation adventure path, and this time, i'm seriously thinking about mandating that players ONLY use the point buy or standard array methods of creating their characters ability scores.

I truly believe that rolling ability scores is more fun for players, and can create balanced characters with the "risk" of having a few bad stats...

...but, would you believe, that I've never seen a balanced character come to my table with rolled up ability scores? They all presented with above average stats for their characters with usually no bad stats, no negative anything, and at least an 18 score (or maybe two 18 scores) to start. Each and every player! This has even happened when the group is like at 5th level, and a character dies, and a player comes back with a new 5th level character with above average rolled up ability stats. You could say that this is "luck of the dice," but I'm thinking that's not the case...

You see, I want to trust my players. I don't want to accuse them of fudging/lying with their dice rolls, especially when it comes to ability stats. And i don't want to sit and watch them roll up their characters and police them. I'm not the kind of DM who micromanages players characters sheets. I generally trust that when they make their characters at home, they are rolling the dice honestly.

But no one has ever came with a character with like a rolled up ability score of an 8 or something like that. They've all presented with some pretty "lucky" dice rolls...each and every time with each and every character that they make.

One time, later in the game, my wizard wanted to poly-morph into a T-Rex but was disappointed because his strength score was too low. I had a druid who didn't like to shape shift because turning into a bear was sub-optimal compared to the other players with better stats!

So I'm just really thinking that this time, for the new campaign, to disallow rolling the stats.

Do you think this is too harsh?

Do you other DMs police your players?

How should this be handled?

I think you should give the players a choice. PB, Standard Array, or Roll.

BUT! If you roll.... If you gamble for your stats....
1) You do it in front of the whole group (not because we don't trust you, but because we all want to laugh or cry along with you of course.)
It's AMAZING how the statistical anomalies of rolling only 15s+ & multiple 18s at that disappear when you do this.
2) Those rolls are recorded.
3) You WILL play what results in good faith. Failure = you sit out this campaign due to cheating & then in all future games you use the standard array.

This has worked in my games for many years. I've only ever had 4 players opt not to roll.

 

[cbwjm]

I prefer rolling. If you are ever in doubt then have your group roll in front you in a session 0.

 

[Psikerlord#]

Point buy: everyone equal, but cookie cutter boringness
Roll: everyone unequal, but avoids cookie cutter effect

Best of both: everyone rolls, including the GM. Anyone can pick anyone else's array if they want, possibly with a small penalty (GM call). You get everyone on equal enough footing, but eliminate cookie cutter boringness. Yes, maybe the whole party has above average stats, but this isnt a problem: just add more monsters (or even better, play a deadlier system or for 5e use 1 death save instead of 3).

As long as you have a rough intra-party balance, you're good to go.

 

[Ganymede81]

A friend of mine just took over the mantle of DM for a while, and gave the option of rolling stats instead of using point buy. Three of the six players jumped at the opportunity.

It was certainly fun to see them roll for their scores; there were cheers when someone rolled a 17, and there were gasps when someone else rolled a 6. I, on the other hand, was content to keep my point buy stats.

 

[Xeviat]

Here's another middle ground idea. So the average for 4d6k3 is 12.24 or so, yes? And 3d6 is 10.5. What if you gave characters a 15 and a 14 and then let them 3d6 roll the others? This comes out to an average total of 71 instead of 73.44, but it still allows for the chance of some high stats and gives some variability.

Just tossing out new ideas.

 

[Lanefan]

Here's another middle ground idea. So the average for 4d6k3 is 12.24 or so, yes? And 3d6 is 10.5. What if you gave characters a 15 and a 14 and then let them 3d6 roll the others? This comes out to an average total of 71 instead of 73.44, but it still allows for the chance of some high stats and gives some variability.

It also allows for the chance of some very low stats. Rolling 4 on 3d6 is just as likely as rolling 17....been there, done that: character was fun while it lasted.

We roll, and always will; but rolling is done at the game table.

Show up at my game with a pre-rolled character and my first words might be something like "Sorry that you wasted all that time and effort. Here's a blank character sheet; now grab some d6's and start rollin'."

Lan-"oh, and use dice that can be read from farther away than three inches, will ya?"-efan

 

[Hussar]

See, I really don't get the point of die rolling the character stats.

As [MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION] pointed out, the difference between a low rolled character and a high one is significant. As in a level, possibly 2 levels worth of significant.

So, would die roll fans be okay with this - We all start with standard array, then everyone rolls a d20. The highest roll gets +2 levels. Next up gets +1. Next starts at baseline level (presuming 1st) and lowest gets -1 level (use the effects from Raise Dead until you gain "first" level, 150 xp later).

Would that be considered fair?

 

[Ilbranteloth]

Ive been DMing for many years now, and enjoy it very much. I just finished up Out of the Abyss, and it went great. However, it almost felt like we were "power gaming" by the end of the adventure path.

As I normally do with almost all my games, I allowed my players to roll their stats at the beginning of the game instead of using the point buy or standard array ability scores presented in the Players Handbook. However, during the course of the game, i often felt that i had to fluff monsters attacks, hit points, and damage just to keep up with the characters power surge.

Soon, i will be running the Tomb of Annihilation adventure path, and this time, i'm seriously thinking about mandating that players ONLY use the point buy or standard array methods of creating their characters ability scores.

I truly believe that rolling ability scores is more fun for players, and can create balanced characters with the "risk" of having a few bad stats...

...but, would you believe, that I've never seen a balanced character come to my table with rolled up ability scores? They all presented with above average stats for their characters with usually no bad stats, no negative anything, and at least an 18 score (or maybe two 18 scores) to start. Each and every player! This has even happened when the group is like at 5th level, and a character dies, and a player comes back with a new 5th level character with above average rolled up ability stats. You could say that this is "luck of the dice," but I'm thinking that's not the case...

You see, I want to trust my players. I don't want to accuse them of fudging/lying with their dice rolls, especially when it comes to ability stats. And i don't want to sit and watch them roll up their characters and police them. I'm not the kind of DM who micromanages players characters sheets. I generally trust that when they make their characters at home, they are rolling the dice honestly.

But no one has ever came with a character with like a rolled up ability score of an 8 or something like that. They've all presented with some pretty "lucky" dice rolls...each and every time with each and every character that they make.

One time, later in the game, my wizard wanted to poly-morph into a T-Rex but was disappointed because his strength score was too low. I had a druid who didn't like to shape shift because turning into a bear was sub-optimal compared to the other players with better stats!

So I'm just really thinking that this time, for the new campaign, to disallow rolling the stats.

Do you think this is too harsh?

Do you other DMs police your players?

How should this be handled?

I use 3d6 reroll any 1s once. It's similar, but mathematically is almost the same as the standard array. If I recall, 4d6 drop the lowest tends to trend higher.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

See, I really don't get the point of die rolling the character stats.

As [MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION] pointed out, the difference between a low rolled character and a high one is significant. As in a level, possibly 2 levels worth of significant.

So, would die roll fans be okay with this - We all start with standard array, then everyone rolls a d20. The highest roll gets +2 levels. Next up gets +1. Next starts at baseline level (presuming 1st) and lowest gets -1 level (use the effects from Raise Dead until you gain "first" level, 150 xp later).

Would that be considered fair?

My point is that they are what you're born with. We roll in order, so you have to make do with what you've got, rather than every PC being optimized for exactly what you want. All of my players have multiple characters, so you can pretty much always make the class you want, but it's tough to optimize.

In the campaign we have characters of different levels anyway. Never been an issue.