D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[Eric Olson]

After 148 pages I think everyone reading understands the trade-off of rolling vs point buy.
Rolling: potentially fun, can create imbalance between characters, atypical abilities can promote RP
Buy/Std: balanced characters, pre-planned characters, identically min/maxed characters.

Lets have a discussion on if it is possible to improve upon either or both of these.

As an example:
1) pick 3 stats and assign (15,14,12) as "insurance" (guarantees the character will be nearly as play-able & fair as a point/buy)
2) roll all stats in-order 4d6 drop 1, then keep either the roll or the "insurance". (this give the randomness and all the advantages of rolling)
- the (15,14,12) insurance brings the average stat from 12.24 to 13.27, which I feel is reasonable. (especially when compared to the cheating/tweaking that typically accompanies rolling)
- using 3d6 & (15,14,12) brings the average stat to 12.2
Now the only unbalanced part is that one PC might have rolled incredibly well. While this is "fair", it is not ultimately good for the game balance.
3) If the average stat is above 14 (84 points), the player or dm must subtract ability points until they total 84.

Any other ideas for generating characters that are balanced and "fun"?

 

[Caliban]

After 148 pages I think everyone reading understands the trade-off of rolling vs point buy.
Rolling: potentially fun, can create imbalance between characters, atypical abilities can promote RP
Buy/Std: balanced characters, pre-planned characters, identically min/maxed characters.

Lets have a discussion on if it is possible to improve upon either or both of these.

As an example:
1) pick 3 stats and assign (15,14,12) as "insurance" (guarantees the character will be nearly as play-able & fair as a point/buy)
2) roll all stats in-order 4d6 drop 1, then keep either the roll or the "insurance". (this give the randomness and all the advantages of rolling)
- the (15,14,12) insurance brings the average stat from 12.24 to 13.27, which I feel is reasonable. (especially when compared to the cheating/tweaking that typically accompanies rolling)
- using 3d6 & (15,14,12) brings the average stat to 12.2
Now the only unbalanced part is that one PC might have rolled incredibly well. While this is "fair", it is not ultimately good for the game balance.
3) If the average stat is above 14 (84 points), the player or dm must subtract ability points until they total 84.

Any other ideas for generating characters that are balanced and "fun"?

Use point buy? Seems to work for me.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Lets have a discussion on if it is possible to improve upon either or both of these.

:lifts jaw off ground:

I'm sorry, I wasn't expecting to see anything constructive at this point, you caught me by surprise.

It's entirely possible to hybridize these methods. For instance, random-and-arrange is essentially already hybridized with array - a randomly-generated array - in contrast to the greater realism of pure roll-in-order.

Already mentioned in this thread: Randomly generate one array, everyone uses it. Card-based random generation to offer some randomization, while enforcing a set proportion of good & bad numbers. Roll randomly, but assign points (extra ASIs?) to characters who roll below a total-stat threshold. The 'D&D' Gamma World chargen method of Origin (corresponding to class/race in D&D) determining your two high stats and 3d6 in order for the rest.

In another thread [MENTION=6801328]Elfcrusher[/MENTION] had a hybrid chargen idea: point-buy 3 stats of your choice, roll 3d6 in order for the other 3.

As an example:
1) pick 3 stats and assign (15,14,12) as "insurance" 2) roll all stats in-order 4d6 drop 1, then keep either the roll or the "insurance".
- using 3d6 & (15,14,12) brings the average stat to 12.2
3) If the average stat is above 14 (84 points), the player or dm must subtract ability points until they total 84.

Any other ideas for generating characters that are balanced and "fun"?

I'm considering a variation on the GW system for fairly focused campaign. There will be a pool of available classes, races, and backgrounds for players to choose from (for instance, human might be available x6, but elf only once) or draw randomly. Each of the three comes with an associated stat. You gain a 14 in the associated stat, 16 if you get the same one twice, 18 if you tripple-down on it. Then you assign your remaining stats from 13, 12, 10, 8 , 8. So you could get 14, 14, 14, 13, 12, 10, or 18, 13, 12, 10, 8, 8. For more randomness, roll the remaining stats in whatever order you choose: three of them on 4d6, any remaining on 3d6.

 

[Maxperson]

After 148 pages I think everyone reading understands the trade-off of rolling vs point buy.
Rolling: potentially fun, can create imbalance between characters, atypical abilities can promote RP
Buy/Std: balanced characters, pre-planned characters, identically min/maxed characters.

Lets have a discussion on if it is possible to improve upon either or both of these.

As an example:
1) pick 3 stats and assign (15,14,12) as "insurance" (guarantees the character will be nearly as play-able & fair as a point/buy)
2) roll all stats in-order 4d6 drop 1, then keep either the roll or the "insurance". (this give the randomness and all the advantages of rolling)
- the (15,14,12) insurance brings the average stat from 12.24 to 13.27, which I feel is reasonable. (especially when compared to the cheating/tweaking that typically accompanies rolling)
- using 3d6 & (15,14,12) brings the average stat to 12.2
Now the only unbalanced part is that one PC might have rolled incredibly well. While this is "fair", it is not ultimately good for the game balance.
3) If the average stat is above 14 (84 points), the player or dm must subtract ability points until they total 84.

Any other ideas for generating characters that are balanced and "fun"?

One of the DMs I played with had everyone roll 4d6-L once, including him. There were 6 of us, then everyone used those 6 numbers. It's the only time I've used an array, and then only because it was 1) rolled, and 2) a good friend DMing. That method combined rolling and arrays, which should work for most pro-array/anti-rolling folks.

 

[Yardiff]

Here's another method. Roll 24d6 remove the lowest 6 die. Then create your stats using the 18 remaining dice, 3 die per stat.

 

[Caliban]

Just cut to the chase. Roll 3d6+6, drop the lowest die. The player can choose to subtract 6 instead of adding it if they desire.

 

[Maxperson]

Here's another method. Roll 24d6 remove the lowest 6 die. Then create your stats using the 18 remaining dice, 3 die per stat.

That seems like it would yield higher average numbers than normal rolling.

 

[Yardiff]

Could always do 12 +/- up to 6 for each stat. Or just pick your numbers. Of course what stat generation method is used is up to the GM.

 

[Yardiff]

That seems like it would yield higher average numbers than normal rolling.

Possibly, if your bored one day give it a try and see what you end up with. I did it a few times, only time you can get an 18 is of course if you rolled at least three 6s. Which I didn't several times.

 

[Wiseblood]

I don't know if it has been suggested. Heck I may have suggested it.

1) Come up with a character concept.
2) Try to imagine the stats this character would have.
2.5) Lower the stats to the bare minimum with which you can evolve into your vision.
3) Ask the DM (and other players) if you can use those stats.

That means no buying, no rolling, no excuses.