D&D 5E Paladin: Why Are They Often Considered Highly Powerful?

[Phion]

Paladin and druid are the two classes I have trouble getting into. When I roll one for a game I end up scrapping it and rolling something else.

The signature of champions.

Yeah I know that feeling, although I pull off druid since I find it easier to act as eccentric old men for some reason. For me it's paladin and monk, I wish I could pull off monk but it never feels natural and a bit forced.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Paladin and druid are the two classes I have trouble getting into. When I roll one for a game I end up scrapping it and rolling something else.

The signature of champions.

I tried a paladin once. Wasn't to my taste either.

 

[dropbear8mybaby]

One thing that I think most DM's neglect is how easy it is for a paladin to lose their powers due to violating their oath. It seems to be, in my experience, that most DM's don't even consider it in play at all. But if you look at the "Breaking Your Oath" section, it's intended that it's actually very easy to break your oath and lose your powers, but also quite easy to regain them.

BREAKING YOUR OATH

A paladin tries to hold to the highest standards of conduct, but even the most virtuous paladin is fallible. Sometimes the right path proves too demanding, sometimes a situation calls for the lesser of two evils, and sometimes the heat of emotion causes a paladin to transgress his or her oath.

A paladin who has broken a vow typically seeks absolution from a cleric who shares his or her faith or from another paladin of the same order. The paladin might spend an all-night vigil in prayer as a sign of penitence, or undertake a fast or similar act of self-denial. After a rite of confession and forgiveness, the paladin starts fresh.

If a paladin willfully violates his or her oath and shows no sign of repentance, the consequences can be more serious. At the DM’s discretion, an impenitent paladin might be forced to abandon this class and adopt another, or perhaps to take the Oathbreaker paladin option that appears in the Dungeon Master’s Guide.

I interpret the above to mean that you can even break your vow unintentionally because it requires intention and a lack of remorse or effort to atone before you cross the line into an Oathbreaker sub-class, but that even minor things can mean breaking your oath, losing your powers, and then some minor act of contrition that puts you back on the path grants them back.

I'm guessing that most DM's don't want to enforce this though.

 

[smbakeresq]

For Paladin lovers try Oath of the Crown with shield master. They can't run away with your Oath, you can keep bless up so you can prone them more with your bonus action(bless works on ability checks) to try to land that doubled smite, and you get Spirit Guardians to cut their speed in half and melt them. A proned creature in a Spirit Guardians field can only crawl to you. Overlap with a cloud of daggers and they just die.

 

[OB1]

Paladins are certainly BBEG busters, but they are hardly all powerful. They shine against a single powerful foe and are below average everywhere else.

At 10th level, they can smite 9 times per day. In a typical 18 combat round day*, that's 36 attacks, call it 27 hits and 2 criticals (assuming they find a way to get advantage on half of their attacks). If they use all of their slots for smites, that's 33% of their attacks that are smite powered, less if you are trying to save some of them for when you crit. At 5th level it's just 5 smites on 27 hits (19%). It maxes at 19th level with 16 smites on 27 hits (59%).

And their is no greater gift to a DM than the Paladin's Aura. Yes, please adventurers, by all means huddle together in tight formation while I pepper you with AOE spells. It's also Charisma dependent, which means maxing it reduces what you can put into STR and CON or into good feats.

* Assume a deadly combat takes 6 rounds, hard takes 3 rounds, medium takes 2 rounds and that you are supposed to have 3 Deadly, 6 Hard or 8 Medium (or some combination) per day. Based on the typical length of those combats, the expectation becomes about 18 rounds per day give or take 3 rounds depending on the luck of the dice and the skill of the players.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

One thing that I think most DM's neglect is how easy it is for a paladin to lose their powers due to violating their oath. It seems to be, in my experience, that most DM's don't even consider it in play at all. But if you look at the "Breaking Your Oath" section, it's intended that it's actually very easy to break your oath and lose your powers, but also quite easy to regain them.



I interpret the above to mean that you can even break your vow unintentionally because it requires intention and a lack of remorse or effort to atone before you cross the line into an Oathbreaker sub-class, but that even minor things can mean breaking your oath, losing your powers, and then some minor act of contrition that puts you back on the path grants them back.

I'm guessing that most DM's don't want to enforce this though.

Overpowered mechanics with RP restrictions isnt a winning combo. Not that the oath of the ancients is remotely restricting. Oh no. Have fun, fight evil and get drunk and laid. Sort of like my CG fighter, only he doesnt get a bunch of OP class features to go along with having a personality.

 

[dropbear8mybaby]

(bless works on ability checks)

No it doesn't.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Paladins are certainly BBEG busters, but they are hardly all powerful. They shine against a single powerful foe and are below average everywhere else.

I feel that is poor design. You know what people remember? When the paladin made Orcus look like a chump in 2 hits. Not when the fighter performed serviceably against a bunch of filler encounter mooks (that you really only had to fight to give him a purpose). "Yeah, they win every Superbowl, but the waterboys are important too".

And their is no greater gift to a DM than the Paladin's Aura. Yes, please adventurers, by all means huddle together in tight formation while I pepper you with AOE spells. It's also Charisma dependent, which means maxing it reduces what you can put into STR and CON or into good feats.

Having a paladin of the ancients in my party, I can tell you they are NOT the DM's best friend, granting +5 to saves, half damage on a failure, quarter on a pass? Yeah, damn right everyone is clumped.

Paladins also disproportionately benefit from good stat rolls, since Cha is not just a social pillar stat, but a combat one as well. And with it applying to saves, they can afford a bit less Con.

Paladins might balance at upper levels, but in the bracket people actually play (and with the encounter frequency that published adventures use), they are clearly at the head of the pack of the fighting types.

 

[Mistwell]

[MENTION=2525]Mistwell[/MENTION] I'm confused. You asked. You got answers.

Yet, you seem dissatisfied. Argumentative, even.

Look back on the thread. I've given XP to a huge portion of the replies. Most of the replies are good. I am only arguing with a handful of replies. And it's only the ones that just don't make much sense to me, or do not ring true, or seem to have internal inconsistencies, or which I just want some clarification or examples so I can better understand the issues surrounding the class.

Either way, I think I'm done here. See you elsewhere

That's fine. As you said, I am getting plenty of good responses. But thanks for trying.

 

[OB1]

Also poor design. You know what people remember? When the paladin made Orcus look like a chump in 2 hits. Not when the fighter performed serviceably against a bunch of filler encounter mooks (that you really only had to fight to give him a purpose). "Yeah, they win every Superbowl, but the waterboys are important too".

So the Paladin does nothing for 4 hours and then smashes the BBEG of the session? Sounds like spotlight control to me. I'd rather play the wizard laying waste to the hordes myself.

Having a paladin of the ancients in my party, I can tell you they are NOT the DM's best friend, granting +5 to saves, half damage on a failure, quarter on a pass? Yeah, damn right everyone is clumped.

Paladins also disproportionately benefit from good stat rolls, since Cha is not just a social pillar stat, but a combat one as well. And with it applying to saves, they can afford a bit less Con.

0 Damage from not being clumped is still better than half or quarter. Oh and Oath of the Ancients so no auto advantage on the BBEG either.

And when did she get that 20 Cha? Not at 7th when you first get the ability. At 8th? Then her Str is still at 16. 12th? Did she decide not to take GWM? 16th? Does a typical party even make it this far?

Paladins might balance at upper levels, but in the bracket people actually play (and with the encounter frequency that published adventures use), they are clearly at the head of the pack of the fighting types.

As I mentioned, at 5th level they get no Aura and can only smite 6 times a day. Even if you are only encountering HALF of the recommended encounters, that's still less than 50% of your hits that will be smite powered if that is all you use your slots for.

As for published adventures, they are designed to be played and won by casual gamers. If they are not challenging enough, your DM should be modifying to at least more closely match what's recommended in the DMG.