Narrating Hit Points - no actual "damage"

[Hriston]

1. Please do not call or suggest I am attempting to be manipulative again.

You are right that it takes 5 rounds of death saving throws not 6 to determine if you live or die. I was using 6 there incorrectly because you will get to 3 of one or the other by the 5th death saving through. The original intent of adding +1 to the count was because if you had your turn right before the attack that knocked you unconscious then from that attack to your first death saving through would essentially be a round. Thus 5 potential death saves required to be made +1 for that round. So it would be 3-6 not 3-5. Were you trying to be manipulative by claiming it's 3-5 when it's actually 3-6 or was it an honest mistake?

It isn't actually 3-6. It's 3-5, and I'm done with this conversation. Have a good night.

 

[FrogReaver]

It isn't actually 3-6. It's 3-5, and I'm done with this conversation. Have a good night.

Have a good night. Maybe after some sleep you will be able to count this up correctly.

 

[MechaPilot]

Have a good night. Maybe after some sleep you will be able to count this up correctly.

I'm not selecting a side here as to your larger conversation, but the actual number is 3-5 rounds. After three failed death saves, the character dies. After three successful saves, you become stable and don't need to make any further saves.

Over the course of 5 rounds, you'll make 5 saves. Each of those saves must, by their nature, be a success or a failure. On round 5, if you have 2 successful saves and 2 failed saves then your save for that round will determine if you die or stabilize. No sixth round is needed.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm not selecting a side here as to your larger conversation, but the actual number is 3-5 rounds. After three failed death saves, the character dies. After three successful saves, you become stable and don't need to make any further saves.

Over the course of 5 rounds, you'll make 5 saves. Each of those saves must, by their nature, be a success or a failure. On round 5, if you have 2 successful saves and 2 failed saves then your save for that round will determine if you die or stabilize. No sixth round is needed.

The first round you are in when you are knocked unconscious may or may not require a death save. That round is where the 6 comes from.

 

[FrogReaver]

Round 1: knocked unconscious (no death save as it occurred after the start of your turn)
Round 2: death save 1
Round 3: death save 2
Round 4: death save 3
Round 5: death save 4
Round 6: death save 5

Someone want to explain why I get 6 rounds when I spell it out but everyone else is telling me that this only adds up to 5 rounds?

 

[MechaPilot]

The first round you are in when you are knocked unconscious may or may not require a death save. That round is where the 6 comes from.

While that first part is true, needing to make a death save in the round you drop to zero HPs simply means you're starting the 3-5 rounds of death saves one round earlier. You're still only making death saves for 3-5 rounds. And, unless every killing blow is supposed to be hyper-dramatic (like beheading someone, disemboweling someone, Gallaghering someone's skull, etc.) its easy to describe an injury that drops a character to zero HPs and that either does or does not result in death a few rounds later. This is especially true for an armored character, who likely needs to remove her armor from the injury area to fully assess the nature and severity of the injury.

That said, I will note that in actual practice I've only ever had one character at my table die from death saves (and that was from a poison that required daily death saves). Most characters at my table either receive healing before accruing all three saves, or get caught in area effects that do damage to them, and therefore automatically accrue failed death saves.

 

[FrogReaver]

While that first part is true, needing to make a death save in the round you drop to zero HPs simply means you're starting the 3-5 rounds of death saves one round earlier. You're still only making death saves for 3-5 rounds. And, unless every killing blow is supposed to be hyper-dramatic (like beheading someone, disemboweling someone, Gallaghering someone's skull, etc.) its easy to describe an injury that drops a character to zero HPs and that either does or does not result in death a few rounds later. This is especially true for an armored character, who likely needs to remove her armor from the injury area to fully assess the nature and severity of the injury.

That said, I will note that in actual practice I've only ever had one character at my table die from death saves (and that was from a poison that required daily death saves). Most characters at my table either receive healing before accruing all three saves, or get caught in area effects that do damage to them, and therefore automatically accrue failed death saves.

The count was for how much time passed since you were dropped. Not how much time passed since the round of your first death save. If you are dropped on round 1 and finish your last death save on round 6 then that's 6 rounds not 5.

 

[MechaPilot]

The count was for how much time passed since you were dropped. Not how much time passed since the round of your first death save. If you are dropped on round 1 and finish your last death save on round 6 then that's 6 rounds not 5.

Ah, yes. I do see what you mean. If you're counting from the hit that felled you and not counting rounds of death saves, then 3-6 is accurate if you've already taken your turn in the round in which you were dropped.

 

[FrogReaver]

While that first part is true, needing to make a death save in the round you drop to zero HPs simply means you're starting the 3-5 rounds of death saves one round earlier. You're still only making death saves for 3-5 rounds. And, unless every killing blow is supposed to be hyper-dramatic (like beheading someone, disemboweling someone, Gallaghering someone's skull, etc.) its easy to describe an injury that drops a character to zero HPs and that either does or does not result in death a few rounds later. This is especially true for an armored character, who likely needs to remove her armor from the injury area to fully assess the nature and severity of the injury.

That said, I will note that in actual practice I've only ever had one character at my table die from death saves (and that was from a poison that required daily death saves). Most characters at my table either receive healing before accruing all three saves, or get caught in area effects that do damage to them, and therefore automatically accrue failed death saves.

I'm going to keep the 3-6 round discussion separate from the other topics.

You said " its easy to describe an injury that drops a character to zero HPs and that either does or does not result in death a few rounds later"

That is true. But that wasn't what the discussion was about. The question was about whether such a blow that knocks you unconscious would need to leave a physical injury that couldn't be recovered from in a single night. That is rather difficult to answer as (if you die it needs to be an injury but if you don't then the fast resting rules mean that nothing very serious knocked you unconscious). So unless you don't narrate the blow until after all the death saves are made then it's nigh impossible.

 

[MechaPilot]

I'm going to keep the 3-6 round discussion separate from the other topics.

Fair enough.

You said " its easy to describe an injury that drops a character to zero HPs and that either does or does not result in death a few rounds later"

I did say that.

That is true. But that wasn't what the discussion was about. The question was about whether such a blow that knocks you unconscious would need to leave a physical injury that couldn't be recovered from in a single night. That is rather difficult to answer as (if you die it needs to be an injury but if you don't then the fast resting rules mean that nothing very serious knocked you unconscious). So unless you don't narrate the blow until after all the death saves are made then it's nigh impossible.

Frankly, I've never seen it come up. I've never seen a PC reduced to zero HPs (especially if they've had to make one or two death saves) who didn't receive some kind of magical healing before taking a long rest (even if it's just as a defensive measure to keep the character on her feet while the group gets away to safety so they can rest).

Don't mistake my having never seen it for my saying it can't and doesn't happen. I'm sure it can and does happen. But, my experience at DM'ing 5e has been that a character who is reduced to zero HPs either dies within 2-3 rounds (either from damage or a combination of damage and failed death saves) or gets some kind of magical healing before getting to a place where a rest can be taken.