Narrating Hit Points - no actual "damage"

[FrogReaver]

The outcome of the attack that drops a character to 0 hit points is that the character is unconscious, so that's what I narrate at that moment. It remains to be resolved over the next 18 to 30 seconds whether any harm sufficient enough to end the character's life has been done. Once the character's death saves have been resolved, then I can narrate that outcome.

So you don't really detail the blow that knocks the PC unconscious anymore than the ORC swings his axe and hits you dealing 12 points of damage and knocking you unconscious? Then each failed death save is narrated with increasing details indicating the injury is more and more severe?

I can maybe see that. One minor issue though. If you have a helmet on and are hit in the head I can see the Axe possibly knocking you unconscious. How do you propose a shortsword knocks someone unconscious? I would think it most commonly would be with a stab or cut. If that's true and said short sword stabs or cuts you well enough to knock you unconscious how is that kind of wound something that will heal overnight? Or is there some better way to narrate a short sword knocking you unconscious?

 

[Lanefan]

One minor issue though. If you have a helmet on and are hit in the head I can see the Axe possibly knocking you unconscious. How do you propose a shortsword knocks someone unconscious? I would think it most commonly would be with a stab or cut. If that's true and said short sword stabs or cuts you well enough to knock you unconscious how is that kind of wound something that will heal overnight? Or is there some better way to narrate a short sword knocking you unconscious?

If "unconscious" is seen as merely shorthand for "hurt badly enough as to be unable to continue fighting, either temporarily or permanently" then at least this last question somewhat goes away.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

That's not accurate. Slow healing inherently slows the pace of the adventure as characters take days or weeks (possibly even months) of time to heal before continuing the adventure. Going back to healing only 1 HP per day (which your individual table can already do if you want) causes us to lose out on faster-paced adventures.

Honestly, I'd count that in the positive category, if it meant we didn't have to cram six encounters into every single adventuring day before they started to matter. I guess, if you already had six huge encounters every day, then going back to one or two encounters (or scaling those encounters down, so they use fewer resources) might seem constraining.

But I actually just meant "we" in the sense of "we who prefer slow healing"; we aren't losing out on anything, because we never wanted to run through all of our resources in one day in the first place. If you don't count yourself in that category, then obviously YMMV.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yeah, you would definitely need to get rid of the concept of Hit Dice entirely, or else the slowest possible set of options in the book will still allow you to heal up to full overnight. The only difference is that you can't pull it off on consecutive nights; you need a couple of weeks to recharge, before you can go from zero up to full overnight again.
Adding in an entirely new injury system is definitely more complex than using a system which had already worked well for decades, and which is already in the game regardless.

The only thing we really lose out on, by using HP damage to track physical injury, is the ability to model short-term fatigue and luck and fighting spirit or whatever. And honestly, modeling vague whatevers is never going to be a priority for a game system.

Possibly. Adding in an injury system even if it is more complex adds almost no complexity because you are just overlaying it on top of the current 5e rules (a little more than 1 might as well still be 1). It also has the added benefits of:
1. You are modeling both physical damage and fatigue luck separately and thus they can have separate recovery rates.
2. It gives a consequence for falling to 0 hp. (That's where injuries happen, thus fixing one of the most annoying 5e healing issues, whack A mole healing)
3. It still allows fast paced adventures as your hp recovers quickly (unless there's an injury that impacts that).

Personally I think the injury system when coupled with fast hp recovery works the best. Keep in mind it doesn't need to be an extremely complicated injury table.

Trying to just do slow hp recovery gets into the issue of essentially requiring magical healing for any kind of fast paced adventure which really isn't very popular. There is also the side effect that if there is magical healing in a slow hp recovery game but you write an adventure assuming none of it then any group with magical healing will likely find the event a cakewalk.

 

[Hriston]

Yeah, you would definitely need to get rid of the concept of Hit Dice entirely, or else the slowest possible set of options in the book will still allow you to heal up to full overnight. The only difference is that you can't pull it off on consecutive nights; you need a couple of weeks to recharge, before you can go from zero up to full overnight again.

You could also limit the number of hit dice you could use. By limiting hit dice use to say, one hit die per day, you might be able to achieve something like a 1e rate of healing, keeping in mind that creatures tend to have more hit points in 5e.

Adding in an entirely new injury system is definitely more complex than using a system which had already worked well for decades, and which is already in the game regardless.

The Lingering Injuries table isn't all that complex. The resulting injuries that can be healed through non-magical means take at least 10 days to heal, which is a little fast, but it could be adjusted to suit preferences.

The only thing we really lose out on, by using HP damage to track physical injury, is the ability to model short-term fatigue and luck and fighting spirit or whatever. And honestly, modeling vague whatevers is never going to be a priority for a game system.

I don't see how you're losing out on that. It seems like if you're too injured to go adventuring, those other things have run out too. Also, I don't get your last sentence. Vague is exactly what hit points have been for over 40 years.

 

[FrogReaver]

Honestly, I'd count that in the positive category, if it meant we didn't have to cram six encounters into every single adventuring day before they started to matter. I guess, if you already had six huge encounters every day, then going back to one or two encounters (or scaling those encounters down, so they use fewer resources) might seem constraining.

But I actually just meant "we" in the sense of "we who prefer slow healing"; we aren't losing out on anything, because we never wanted to run through all of our resources in one day in the first place. If you don't count yourself in that category, then obviously YMMV.

There's also the issue of spell casters getting stronger in slow healing environments. More resting per encounter means more spells per encounter.

 

[MechaPilot]

Honestly, I'd count that in the positive category, if it meant we didn't have to cram six encounters into every single adventuring day before they started to matter. I guess, if you already had six huge encounters every day, then going back to one or two encounters (or scaling those encounters down, so they use fewer resources) might seem constraining.

But I actually just meant "we" in the sense of "we who prefer slow healing"; we aren't losing out on anything, because we never wanted to run through all of our resources in one day in the first place. If you don't count yourself in that category, then obviously YMMV.

It doesn't really take six "huge" encounters, small to medium-sized encounters work as well (though I do maximize the HPs of the creatures my players face, because they rolled quite well with their ability scores). I've found that some players really enjoy blowing a resource to trivialize a small encounter (it helps them feel the power their character gained from levelling up, and it ends a dangerous situation more quickly) leaving them with fewer resources for when a more significant encounter arises later that session.

Also, I don't strive to fit six encounters each day. Even when I do get six or more in a given day it's likely that some of them will be social or exploration encounters that won't require expending combat-centric resources like HPs (though spending spell points on a spell to get around it is certainly possible).

I don't typically expect my players to run through all their resources in one day. There are times when they're going through parts of an adventure where I do expect they'll run out of resources, but that's only in select spots, not consistently throughout. And you might expect from this (and that I don't strive for 6+ encounters per day) that I would be in favor of slow healing. However, my experience with slower healing through 3e, and especially the slower healing from BECMI and AD&D 2e, is that it makes the PCs too cautious. Lower HPs = higher risk of death, higher risk of death = doing even more to avoid combat, doing even more to avoid combat often seems to result in the PCs taking a week or so to rest up before continuing the adventure (which can really be difficult when the adventure involves a ticking clock, or other repercussions from enemies).

 

[The Crimson Binome]

There's also the issue of spell casters getting stronger in slow healing environments. More resting per encounter means more spells per encounter.

That much, at least, 5E tried to address. If you take the default approach to "slow healing" in 5E, then it means you only get a long rest once per week, which means that most spellcasters only get their spell slots back once per week.

Spellcasters actually become relatively weaker in a slow healing game, because they get spells back less frequently, but the duration of individual utility spells is not changed at all. That, in turn, is somewhat mitigated by easy access to rituals.

 

[FrogReaver]

That much, at least, 5E tried to address. If you take the default approach to "slow healing" in 5E, then it means you only get a long rest once per week, which means that most spellcasters only get their spell slots back once per week.

Spellcasters actually become relatively weaker in a slow healing game, because they get spells back less frequently, but the duration of individual utility spells is not changed at all. That, in turn, is somewhat mitigated by easy access to rituals.

Yes. But you are the one that referenced decades of D&D slow hp recovery, all of which also assumed daily spell recovery...

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Yes. But you are the one that referenced decades of D&D slow hp recovery, all of which also assumed daily spell recovery...

Fair enough. It could potentially become an issue where spellcasters became more powerful, if you were playing an older edition and you had a lot of downtime.

I can't speak for how higher levels go in those games. At lower levels, it might go two weeks without an encounter while travelling between point A and point B, but the vast majority of spell slots were simply going unused.