Psion class (Mearls, Happy Fun Hour)

[gyor]

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Traveler the perfect Nomad Psion.

 

[gyor]

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Ocampa perfect example of telekinesis and telepathy within the Ocampa.

 

[gyor]

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Changeling Changelings are the perfect metamorphs, and they have a kind of telepathy when in the great link.
Just a few ideas from Star Trek for the Psion class.

 

[gyor]

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Empath Gem is a great example of an Ardent Bard, an Empathy who heals people.

 

[Salthorae]

So it's the "flavor" of spells that people don't like with the current iteration?

Let Mearls design what he's doing and if it comes out that the are "spellcasting" based, then just say all psionics are cast w/o components and with the an unlimited spell point system. Done. it's not spells anymore for your games, but it uses existing frameworks that other people can easily learn. I think that MM will address that part of generating the powers as he gets closer to finalizing the drafts.

Honestly I think there are people too worked up about the current state when the rough draft isn't even complete yet. This is part of the issue of him doing the design in public view.

I am encouraged by what he's put together so far this round, and I hope that the final rough draft is closer to some of the things we've talked about in here. Time will tell. Though I do want him to put TK back into the Psion as an iconic element. Maybe not a subclass, but part of the cantrip/spell trees he's been talking about.

 

[Gadget]

Late to the party, but I would like to weigh in a little bit on EK/AT template vs a new class for the Psychic Warrior. At first blush, I was totally on board with using this model (separate psionics system or not asside); it is the ideal place to start. What is a Psychic Warrior but a fighter with a psychic abilities added on top? That is fine as far as it goes, but then I looked back and remembered that, in my experience, the EK & AT don't really cut it as a gish mix in class. This is no doubt partially because they are purely an add on of one class's abilities (restricted somewhat of course) onto another, and it does not always mesh that well.

For instance, the EK is somewhat restricted to evocation & abjuration spells, but of those, evocation does not really suite a 1/3 caster class that well. You can sometimes find yourself bringing a knife to a gun fight, so to speak. The delayed spell acquisition here is really telling. No doubt my opinion would be higher if we did not have the Paladin and the Ranger as a pseudo-gish class comparison. They are 1/2 casters instead of 1/3 casters, and, have their own unique spell lists (with some overlap of course) to give them their own flavor. They lack cantrips, which can further distinguish them from full casters and 1/3 casters, yet, as their own class, they have the chassis to hang unique and flavorful abilities on (smite, lay on hands, auras, etc) that really give them a more distinguished feel and play. I find myself kind of leaning toward a more paladin/ranger interpretation.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Or just, y'know, not map 'em to spells, at all.

I suppose that depends on what you mean by "mapping". To some extent, the comparison between psi powers and spells is going to be inevitable: characters expend limited resources to create discrete effects, and the number and strength of these effects grows with level. It may also be useful, on not-reinventing-the-wheel grounds, to say things like "when you use this power, you cast confusion" or whatever.

 

[Shardstone]

Mearls has literally recreated Disicplines from the mystic, but renamed all the powers as spells and gave them spell levels.

You have a cantrip that you concentrate on. You can concentrate on two. You can cast spells while concentrating on this cantrip to do cool powers. These spells can only be cast while concentrating on the cantrip.

COMPARE THIS TO THE MYSTIC PLEASE

You have a psionic focus that you concentrate on. You can concentrate on two. You spend psi points while concentrating on this focus to do cool powers. These powers can be cast whether concentrating or not.

All he did was nerf Disciplines, rename them, and then is laying them out as if they're spells.

The thing is, they don't work like spells. Spells don't let you concentrate on more than 1 at a time. Spells don't stack on top of cantrips. It's redefining the simple spellcasting feature and bending it into something else.

Why keep the same name of spells if what he's creating works mechanically different with the exception of slots and the spell level system to divide powers of different strengths?

 

[Tony Vargas]

I suppose that depends on what you mean by "mapping".

Like don't have a 3rd level Discipline, Pyrokinetic Sphere, that does 8d6 fire damage to everything in a 20' radius.

To some extent, the comparison between psi powers and spells is going to be inevitable: characters expend limited resources to create discrete effects, and the number and strength of these effects grows with level. It may also be useful, on not-reinventing-the-wheel grounds, to say things like "when you use this power, you cast confusion" or whatever.

Oh, the 're-inventing' argument is obvious and even compelling, it just doubles as an argument not to have psionics, at all. So, IDK, have them work nothing like spells. Instead of discrete effects, construct effects up from disciplines, like supernatural Legos, using power points to fuel each block. Or simply don't have "high level" disciplines, don't level-gate them, just learn more as you go, and pouring more power points into them brings them up to level-appropriate effectiveness.

 

[gyor]

Late to the party, but I would like to weigh in a little bit on EK/AT template vs a new class for the Psychic Warrior. At first blush, I was totally on board with using this model (separate psionics system or not asside); it is the ideal place to start. What is a Psychic Warrior but a fighter with a psychic abilities added on top? That is fine as far as it goes, but then I looked back and remembered that, in my experience, the EK & AT don't really cut it as a gish mix in class. This is no doubt partially because they are purely an add on of one class's abilities (restricted somewhat of course) onto another, and it does not always mesh that well.

For instance, the EK is somewhat restricted to evocation & abjuration spells, but of those, evocation does not really suite a 1/3 caster class that well. You can sometimes find yourself bringing a knife to a gun fight, so to speak. The delayed spell acquisition here is really telling. No doubt my opinion would be higher if we did not have the Paladin and the Ranger as a pseudo-gish class comparison. They are 1/2 casters instead of 1/3 casters, and, have their own unique spell lists (with some overlap of course) to give them their own flavor. They lack cantrips, which can further distinguish them from full casters and 1/3 casters, yet, as their own class, they have the chassis to hang unique and flavorful abilities on (smite, lay on hands, auras, etc) that really give them a more distinguished feel and play. I find myself kind of leaning toward a more paladin/ranger interpretation.

4 of the 13 spells can come from any school, I can think of 5 great choices from Abjuration off the top of my head and same for Evocation, plus the cantrips are not school restricted.

Here is a quick and dirty spell list

1st level: Absorb Elements, Sleep, Faerie Fire, Shield
2nd level: retrain Sleep for Shadowblade, Scorching Ray, Continueing Flame, Mirror Image
3rd Sending (evocation) and fireball, counter spell, Haste
4th Storm Sphere, Conjure Minor Elementals

At level 4 (or 1 for human) you take Ritual Caster wizard, more then doubling the potential amount of spells you can learn know, including spells like Find Familiar, Unseen Servant, Tensors Floating Disk, Illusionary Steed, Water Breathing, Rary's Telepathic Bond, Contact Other Plane. Between the subclass and the feat this is a very Gishy Character who can cast spells all the time, fights really well.

If that is not enough you can also take magic inniate wizard feat and perhaps racial magic feats as well.

So say base minium you take the ritual caster feat and the maguc inniate feat, you are looking 14 known spell slot spells, potentially over 15 Rituals, 5 Cantrips. And that is not including the fact that you can use wands. Not enough for you? take a couple of levels in Wizard.

So I don't see the issue.