Dark Sun

[pukunui]

I ran Dark Sun once (owned some 2e material, but never used it). From memory, I think I ran it during the 5e playtest days or maybe with 3.5, I certainly recall using the 4e stuff as well as 2e and 3.x for inspiration.

You ran it for us using 3.5. That was just before we switched over to the 5e playtest. IIRC you used a bunch of adventures that weren't actually set in Dark Sun and just converted them over (like that one with the crashed flying city).

 

[epithet]

An option might be to have the preserver spellcaster use the class normally, while the defiler would use the Variant: Spell Points rule in the DMG (page 288.) You could then defile to generate additional spell points. To add defiling to spellcasters generally, you could take one of the sorcerer's metamagic options (probably Empowered Spell) and let any caster defile to generate sorcery points to apply that option to the spell.

Another possibility, especially if you don't want to have sorcerers in your Dark Sun campaign, is to take the entire metamagic section and let any spellcaster use it, but the only way to get sorcery points is to defile. By wiping out a large enough area, a caster could create several spell slots and use them to cast beefed-up spells. As a limiting factor, you could have defiling do damage to the spellcaster equal to the points spent, but also allow the spellcaster to spend hit dice during the defilement. Since any self-respecting Athas campaign will probably be using the "slow natural healing" option (DMG page 267) those hit dice will be a limited resource.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

Dark Sun deserves more than just a shoehorn fit for whatever edition happens to be trending at the moment. Not just another dressed-up version with band-aid fixes, nostalgia boosts, and all-worlds compatibility. They try every edition. Time for something new! It should have it's own rules subset that supports those qualities which make it unique. Low magic, dark fantasy, brutal monsters, overwhelming odds, survival in the apocalypse! It's Dark Sun, man!

 

[Dispater]

The DM is going to have more record-keeping. For each spell (or each combat), was it preserve-cast or defile-cast? Who witnessed it? Did they survive the combat? Would word get out?

Unless you have A Very Powerful Protector, defile-casting gets you the opportunity to be the target of an angry mob (who figure that dying killing you is better than dying to power your spells, but they are going to die regardless, therefore you can't threaten to kill them unless they leave you alone).

Defilers only draw on plant life and lower life forms such as insects. Only very high level defilers like the SK's have/had the ability to draw on sentient life forms. A defiler casting a low-level spell would actually have the chance to slip by unnoticed. Sure people would notice the sagging plant life afterwards, but there are more subtleties to the defilement mechanic than "you get an angry suicidal mob attacking you on sight".

 

[Cyber-Dave]

These are my homebrew rules for a 5e Dark Sun... I have yet to find a set that works better (at least for my needs). I still need four elemental clerics and the rules for the psionics classes to be able to run Dark Sun properly, though.

 

[Salthorae]

If they don’t release official rules in the upcoming settings on July 23rd, I will probably re-work 2e rules and present them here.

Defiling will probably also get some mechanic to allow those tracking xp to get a bonus to xp earned in encounters where a spellcaster defiles. It really was the quick path to power in 2e!

Maybe two subclasses where the preserver can roll into defiler like an Oathbreaker paladin does. Also some “redemption mechanics” similar to the paladin’s. You can go paladin —> Oathbreaker —> paladin through atonement, but if you go Oathbreaker again, there is no atonement from that. Same concept for defiling if you go back after atoning, you’re stuck defiling

 

[Dispater]

These are my homebrew rules for a 5e Dark Sun... I have yet to find a set that works better (at least for my needs). I still need four elemental clerics and the rules for the psionics classes to be able to run Dark Sun properly, though.

Interesting notes.

I would probably do away with Sorcerers altogether in Dark Sun. The magic used in the setting is not inherent or from some bloodline. All the Sorcerer Kings are powerful defilers and psionicists who are in varying stages of turning into a dragon, not because of some inherent blood ability, but because of a 10th level spell. I'd suggest you read the official Dragon Kings original supplement to 2e.

Defiling/preserving. I am of the mind that defiling needs to be the default way of casting magic, whereas preserving is the difficult bit, requiring more skill checks or something else.

Also, remember that literacy is strictly reserved for templars or nobles in DS. No race learns automatically how to read or write their languages.

 

[Dispater]

If they don’t release official rules in the upcoming settings on July 23rd, I will probably re-work 2e rules and present them here.

Defiling will probably also get some mechanic to allow those tracking xp to get a bonus to xp earned in encounters where a spellcaster defiles. It really was the quick path to power in 2e!

Maybe two subclasses where the preserver can roll into defiler like an Oathbreaker paladin does. Also some “redemption mechanics” similar to the paladin’s. You can go paladin —> Oathbreaker —> paladin through atonement, but if you go Oathbreaker again, there is no atonement from that. Same concept for defiling if you go back after atoning, you’re stuck defiling

The way I fixed the 'quick route to power' for defilers in my conversion was to make them their own class. They simply get more spells/levels than a preserver of the same level.

 

[Zardnaar]

The way I fixed the 'quick route to power' for defilers in my conversion was to make them their own class. They simply get more spells/levels than a preserver of the same level.

I made defiling boost the casting slot by 1 level. Preservers can do it as often as they like but once they become a defiler its 1/long or short rest ability. To defile you have to make a DC 10 intelligence save, fail that you beomce a defiler.

Basically its like a drug. Addictive with diminishing returns.

Hopefully my new version will be up tomorrow or the day after. I have the elemental domains, rewritten races and a place holder psion (refluffed spellcaster with PSPs over spell slots).

Air= tempest
Earth=Nature
Fire= Light
Water = water (this is a bit weak water is life is the theory).

and I have elemental domains from EN5iders but I need to do a water domain

 

[Cyber-Dave]

Interesting notes.

I would probably do away with Sorcerers altogether in Dark Sun. The magic used in the setting is not inherent or from some bloodline. All the Sorcerer Kings are powerful defilers and psionicists who are in varying stages of turning into a dragon, not because of some inherent blood ability, but because of a 10th level spell. I'd suggest you read the official Dragon Kings original supplement to 2e.

Defiling/preserving. I am of the mind that defiling needs to be the default way of casting magic, whereas preserving is the difficult bit, requiring more skill checks or something else.
Also, remember that literacy is strictly reserved for templars or nobles in DS. No race learns automatically how to read or write their languages.

They didn't have contemporary sorcerers back in 2e, period. I decided to riff on the name "Sorcerer Kings" when I adapted my version of 5e Dark Sun. I realize it isn't 100% faithful to the original, but it sticks to its spirit, and it is what works for me. I used the sorcerer class as basically an arcane/psionic hybrid character class that can give a character a "slow climb" towards becoming an avangion or a new sorcerer king (if that concept interested them) *shrug*

As for defiling/preserving, I wanted defiling to be the "more powerful" option, not the "default" option. Its the "easy climb to power." By using it, you basically get free spell slots (and in some ways model having more spell slots per level as per the original rules). It, however, comes with a cost (for both flavour and balance reasons).

Good call on literacy. I should change that.