Missing Rules

[Maxperson]

So if you have Strength 12 and no special skill or ability, you can't long jump fewer than 12 feet (which is RAW)

That's not RAW. RAW is you can jump UP TO your strength in feet. So you can jump 1-12 feet with a running jump.

 

[Sadras]

I find the fact that because the game makes room for Inspiration and it provides an example in Chapter 7 under STR where one can call on an ability check for You try to jump an unusually long distance or pull off a stunt midjump as well as in Chapter 8 under Special types of Movement - Jumping In some circumstances, your DM might allow you to make a Strength (Athletics) check to jump higher than you normally can, that it is pretty obvious that the maximum distance provided on the jump is but for quick and easy reference to overcome obstacles and that greater distances are possible through an ability check, if allowed by the DM, without the need for special narration provided by the player.

The Inspiration mechanic alone, reflects that the character is not always functioning at maximum capacity.

 

[Reynard]

This I think, is another one of the reasons that they didn't do this. Those rules would make it a DC 10 to jump 5 feet with a running jump. A 20 strength PC could fail that, while a 3 strength could make it. It should never be possible for a 3 strength PC to jump farther than a 20 strength PC unless you have critical failure rules and the 20 strength PC tripped and fell. Better to just allow PCs using maximum effort to jump strength distance like the rules indicate.

I disagree. If you are rolling at all that means there's some pressure or dramatic tension. A bad roll represents bad luck, unexpected circumstances or other vagaries of fate. So the Str3 character got lucky while the Str 20 character hooked his toe on launch. Those events inform play. The swinginess of the d20 is what makes it a game.

 

[robus]

"I already assume you are not holding back. Tell me what you're doing, not what you aren't doing."

it looks like we’re still flogging away at the poor horse.

i think we’ve told you what we think is done different and [MENTION=6919838]5ekyu[/MENTION] succinctly nailed it: the jump is reckless and desperate, trading raw power (athletics) for skill and certainty.

That you won’t grant us that is telling. i’m done with the discussion as it’s going in circles now.

edit: misattributed

 

[Maxperson]

I find the fact that because the game makes room for Inspiration and it provides an example in Chapter 7 under STR where one can call on an ability check for You try to jump an unusually long distance or pull off a stunt midjump as well as in Chapter 8 under Special types of Movement - Jumping In some circumstances, your DM might allow you to make a Strength (Athletics) check to jump higher than you normally can, that it is pretty obvious that the maximum distance provided on the jump is but for quick and easy reference to overcome obstacles and that greater distances are possible through an ability check, if allowed by the DM, without the need for special narration provided by the player.

The Inspiration mechanic alone, reflects that the character is not always functioning at maximum capacity.

And that special circumstances are required to go past that quick and easy reference. It's really not hard at all to come up with some believable set of circumstances to jump a few extra feet. Why force the DM to play your character by asking to make an athletics check to go further? Just make a quick description of how you go about it.

 

[Sadras]

If nothing else, this discussion has made me realize how terrible the jump rules are. I propose the following.

Jumping requires an Athletics check. The DC of the jump is based on the distance jumped. For a standing long jump the zdC equals 5 plus twice the distance jumped. For a running long jump the DC equals 5 plus the distance jumped. For a standing high jump the DC equals 5 per foot jumped and for a running high jump it is 5 per 2 feet jumped. The maximum distances are limited by the characters strength score, per the movement rules. Note that unusual conditions can grant advantage (using a sprinboard) or disadvantage (slippery ground) to this roll. Magic and other effects can increase the maximum distance as usual.

I feel completely the opposite - the rules are fantastic.

I do not want to have to have to resort to dice if there is no need. Rolling should only be used if there is uncertainty. You're implying uncertainty exists everytime the PCs jumps.

 

[Maxperson]

I disagree. If you are rolling at all that means there's some pressure or dramatic tension. A bad roll represents bad luck, unexpected circumstances or other vagaries of fate. So the Str3 character got lucky while the Str 20 character hooked his toe on launch. Those events inform play. The swinginess of the d20 is what makes it a game.

The game doesn't have critical fumbles, so there is no "hooking a toe on launch" or other critical fumble happening. Some swing in the game is fine. Extreme swing in a skill where there is not extreme swing is not fine. Go watch long jumpers and see how often they face plant or fail to go at least 5 feet. I'm sure it happens when they critical fail, but it's very, very rare. People enjoy random chance in a game, but they also enjoy things that make sense.

You're better off letting them roll a d20+5 to see how many feet they go, to a maximum of their strength score. That way a 3 strength PC is never going farther than 3 feet, even with a natural 20, and the 20 strength PC is going a minimum of 6 feet and hits maximum distance with a 13.

 

[clearstream]

That's not RAW. RAW is you can jump UP TO your strength in feet. So you can jump 1-12 feet with a running jump.

PHB 182 "When you make a long jump, you cover a number of feet equal to your Strength score if you move at least 10 feet immediately before the jump." The language here leaves little scope for doubt IMO.

You might argue that this disallows players to jump a shorter distance. That would sometimes be prevented by the impossibility of doing so, e.g. by terrain, so cannot reasonably apply. Per RAW, a check is only needed for jumping an unusually long distance. Usual = Strength in feet.

 

[Sadras]

And that special circumstances are required to go past that quick and easy reference. It's really not hard at all to come up with some believable set of circumstances to jump a few extra feet.

Agreed.

Why force the DM to play your character by asking to make an athletics check to go further? Just make a quick description of how you go about it.

I'm imagining this

Player: I know the chasm is 15 feet, my strength score is only 12, would it be possible to burn through an inspiration point to make those 3 additional feet or can I roll an Athletics check to overcome the additional distance? If yes on the latter, what would the DC be? What effect would there be if I dropped my backpack and weapon, might that help?

DM: Determines if possible and says yes and/or provides a DC, or says no.

 

[Maxperson]

I feel completely the opposite - the rules are fantastic.

I do not want to have to have to resort to dice if there is no need. Rolling should only be used if there is uncertainty. You're implying uncertainty exists everytime the PCs jumps.

Realistically, max distance is not achievable with each jump. Running long jumpers often have multiple feet of difference between their various jumps. If I wanted to introduce randomness into jumping, I'd probably allow up to 2/3 distance to be achieved automatically. If you want to go farther than that, you roll a D20 and add your athletics bonus and that's how far you would go to a maximum of your strength and a minimum of 2/3. Special circumstances such as bounding off of a rock or pulling yourself farther on a stalactite and the like would be required to go farther than strength distance, in order to keep it unusual.