Tell Me About Your Experiences With High Level 5E

[OB1]

Couple bits of Advice:

1) High level parties will occasionally completely nullify a fight that you thought was going to be epic. Be ok with that. Enjoy it. Let them have their clever moment. Just make sure your storylines are flexible enough to handle those kinds of set backs for the villains.

2) As you learn your party, be comfortable modifying hitpoints and damage outputs to get the effect you want. Don't be a slave to the stats. I mean, it works if you run things by the book. But if Baphomet having an extra 100 hp makes the fight more fun, go ahead and do it.

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This!
[MENTION=18646]lkj[/MENTION] your campaign sounds amazing, epic and fun! Your experience is exactly why Tier IV is, IMO, the best Tier.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Worth noting that unlike 3e & 4e, large numbers of weaker creatures can challenge high level 5e PCs.

Could you, or anyone else with experience with 5e, give some guidelines to this?

Now, the DMG multiply xp if multiple monsters is bogus. According to that, 4 trolls are a deadly encounter for 11th lvl characters and you have to be 16th or so for it to be medium.
Using the new guidelines in Xanathar's or Sly Flourish still makes the party curb stomp the opposition, so?
I've seen people suggest you should multiply by 0,5 if the creature is alone, by 0,75 if fewer than the party, and by 1,5 or so max if outnumbering the party 2:1.
I've been thinking about just using the 3.X/PF guidelines where two CR5 = CR7, and four CR5 = CR9. So, four trolls = medium for a 9th lvl party.

What are your experiences?

 

[S'mon]

Could you, or anyone else with experience with 5e, give some guidelines to this?

Now, the DMG multiply xp if multiple monsters is bogus. According to that, 4 trolls are a deadly encounter for 11th lvl characters and you have to be 16th or so for it to be medium.
Using the new guidelines in Xanathar's or Sly Flourish still makes the party curb stomp the opposition, so?
I've seen people suggest you should multiply by 0,5 if the creature is alone, by 0,75 if fewer than the party, and by 1,5 or so max if outnumbering the party 2:1.
I've been thinking about just using the 3.X/PF guidelines where two CR5 = CR7, and four CR5 = CR9. So, four trolls = medium for a 9th lvl party.

What are your experiences?

Well I don't balance encounters... I certainly don't use the guidelines. I recall a level ca 11-15 party getting ripped up by around a dozen ToB CR 7 skeletal vine trolls led by a ToB Stuhac (CR 10 I think), they survived by fleeing into the holy cave the trolls couldn't enter.

CR 21/22 Lich Boritt Crowfinger backed by a dozen ToB CR 6 Ghost Knights killed all the lower level PCs in the group ca level 12-14, but Hakeem the epic Barb-20 leapt over them and killed Borritt.

Generally I'd say that a small horde of CR 10 critters (say 4 per PC) could challenge level 20 PCs, which is not the case in 3e or 4e. It plays pretty much the same as 1e-2e.

Also, I recommend Tome of Beasts for nasty monsters.

 

[S'mon]

I've been thinking about just using the 3.X/PF guidelines where two CR5 = CR7, and four CR5 = CR9. So, four trolls = medium for a 9th lvl party.

Four CR 5 should be challenging but winnable for 4 9th level PCs, yup. I think 4 CR 16 would challenge 4 level 20 PCs, and 2 CR 18 might, but 1 CR 20 won't. And 16 CR 12 would probably be
overwhelming.

 

[robus]

It has been extremely fun and easy to run. The best part has been going gonzo on them with using various high level creatures from several books. Lately they've been having to tangle with multiple demon lords.

Sounds like we're running similar high-level campaigns, my group is about to start their journey to take on Demogorgon.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Four CR 5 should be challenging but winnable for 4 9th level PCs, yup. I think 4 CR 16 would challenge 4 level 20 PCs, and 2 CR 18 might, but 1 CR 20 won't. And 16 CR 12 would probably be
overwhelming.

So maybe combine it with the multiplier in my post above to get approximations? So a single CR20 would only count as CR18, the two CR18 as a CR19 or so (and yes, not an exact science) and the CR12's would count as double or so and be totally overwhelming.
Could this be some usable guidelines?

 

[cmad1977]

My advice for high level play is to not take advice from people who are overwhelmed by a couple feats or class abilities that they think at OP or broken.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

My advice for high level play is to not take advice from people who are overwhelmed by a couple feats or class abilities that they think at OP or broken.

And what would you advise that would be actually useful for the OP?

 

[S'mon]

So maybe combine it with the multiplier in my post above to get approximations? So a single CR20 would only count as CR18, the two CR18 as a CR19 or so (and yes, not an exact science) and the CR12's would count as double or so and be totally overwhelming.
Could this be some usable guidelines?

My gut tells me that's about right. With the proviso that I have seen a good number of level 18 PCs, but only one level 20 PC, so I can't really comment on the impact of capstone abilities like
infinite Wildshape. My suspicion though is that a horde of high DPR CR 12s would be very dangerous to a wildshaping moon druid. Also there's stuff like the can't-die-from-damage Zealot
Barbarian who is invincible vs dumb brutes but easily snuffed by a Wiz-1 with 'Sleep'.

 

[Gadget]

While I certainly don't disagree with many of the statements here, I would suggest that if a campaign has "optional" rules in play, such as feats multi-classing(could help or hinder, based on the system mastery and skill of the player), or fairly high amount of magic items, then the CR system becomes more out of tune. Also, I gather many people here are using alternate sources for monsters; the standard 5e MM tends to not have "out of the box" challenges for many, even marginally optimized parties. More recent publications tend to be better in this regard, though the MM can still provide "fodder" and challenges if the CR guidelines are not followed too religiously. There was a lot of "My 9th level party just curb-stomped a Balor" type of posts around here in the first couple of years after 5e's release. I suspect many of us have just--almost unconsciously--adjusted, like learning that even legendary monsters need support and fodder in most instances.