DM advice needed - my party one-round BBEG's

[biktin]

I'm having issues making fights memorable for my players because they're just a bit too efficient at killing...

The party:- 5x level 10 characters , an evoker wizard, war cleric, paladin, ranger/rogue, monk. They don't really min/max (except the cleric).

The issue:

The party have figured out a combination of "stealth & focus fire" tactic. So if they feel they are about to meet a BBEG the ranger will cast Pass Without Trace and the party will attempt to stealth. They are generally pretty good at this, with just the cleric and pally letting the team down on occasion with their clanky armour.

Once they stealth in, they tip toe into the BBEG's room/lair and initiative is rolled (the it's not-a-surprise-round round). They are generally rather well DEX based and can often do pretty well in initiative. But that's almost besides the point (I think) because:- they can deal A LOT of damage in that round.

They focus on the BBEG and unleash armageddon. Silence or Spiritual Guardians might get laid down around the BBEG. If the BBEG survives the ranged attacks, the Pally will lay the smack down with highest level smites available. Legendary BBEG's fair a little better since they can use legendary actions/saves. However, if the wizard or pally get a crit... dead BBEG. With the BBEG dead, they mop up the mooks easy peasy.

This is worst if they use the stealth tactic, but even if they fudge that, they can pretty easily one-round a 200HP creature.

It's really cool that the party can get to be bad-ass, but unfortunately it's also a total anti-climax for them. The party love it when they get through by the skin of their teeth - they talk about it for weeks afterwards. When they one-round the foe they've been chasing down for the past 3 months (human time), it's a forgettable and disappointing experience.

Has anyone got any tips to provide the challenge and entertainment without negating/nerfing their tactics?

 

[iserith]

Don't let the BBEGs be alone. Surround them lieutenants and minions, especially some with Keen Sight or Keen Hearing. Maximize the BBEG's hit points. Place the villain in terrain that makes it harder to reach him or her.

Set up situations where multiple goals need to be achieved outside of slaying the villain such as disabling the doomsday device that is counting down from 30 right now.

Every now and then, give the BBEG a "deadman's switch." Something really bad happens if he or she is taken out. The PCs will have to deal with the switch, whatever it is, before the villain gets taken out.

 

[biktin]

Some nice ideas there. I'm actually running a published adventure but as time has gone on I'm scrapping more and more of the encounters as they don't seem to suit the party (also it is a PF adventure path and so the encounters are not designed for 5e and I've generally added more creatures to each encounter to balance out). Seems like I might have to do a lot more legwork for the encounters!

 

[Sacrosanct]

BBEGs don't usually get to be BBEGs by letting enemies sneak up on them. Look at their environment, and use it to your advantage. Is there natural cover for it, elevation, funnels, etc? How would the BBEG think and prepare for battles? Would it have allies or minions around the party would have to get past? As soon as the party is detected in the lair, the BBEG would be alerted and have time to prepare. Not all solutions need to be high tech either. Coating the pathways with a thick layer of dust do wonders in detecting if someone has passed (even if they are invisible). Mooks are great because PCs can't move through them without taking care of them first. Obstacles are great, including vats of oil that are handy for the BBEG's mooks to overturn when the battle starts and setting it on fire, forcing PCs into areas and creating smoke to obscure vision. Traps are great for disrupting the party as well.

 

[Bawylie]

Don't let the BBEGs be alone. Surround them lieutenants and minions, especially some with Keen Sight or Keen Hearing. Maximize the BBEG's hit points. Place the villain in terrain that makes it harder to reach him or her.

Set up situations where multiple goals need to be achieved outside of slaying the villain such as disabling the doomsday device that is counting down from 30 right now.

Every now and then, give the BBEG a "deadman's switch." Something really bad happens if he or she is taken out. The PCs will have to deal with the switch, whatever it is, before the villain gets taken out.

Since you’re aware of the players’ MO, look for opportunities your baddies might have to complicate their go-to plans.

Multiple goals is a very good idea. Additional obstacles or complications that are in the way of their MO is also good.

I can’t remember the last video game I played where gaining Access to the BBEG didn’t come with 3 or 5 prerequisite goals. Good gravy. 5 keys to 5 doors, and then just think about 5 very different, very challenging “doors.”

Sub-bosses, mad terrain, physical barriers, emotional complications, timing. I mean, not every BBEG sleeps on the first floor with the window open and soundproof ear muffs.

 

[LordEntrails]

How come the party knows they are about to encounter the BBEG?
How come the BBEG has no guards or magic to warn of stealthy enemies?
How come the party can identify the BBEG when they enter the room?
How come the BBEG has no defensive environement to help them?
How come the BBEG never comes after the party?

You are being predictable, and therefore your party has developed and optimized a plan for what you always do. Stop being predictable

 

[Guest 6801328]

As previous posters have suggested or alluded, your BBEG is an intelligent, crafty, foresightful...even lucky...villain. Play him that way.

If your players can figure out they are about to encounter the BBEG, maybe the BBEG can figure out he's about to be attacked by a bunch of wannabe heroes. How can he prepare?

How would your players prepare if you asked them to play the villain?

As a (related) aside, during the period where I sunk way too much of my life into World of Warcraft, I imagined a next-gen MMO where employees would "play" the raid bosses...controlling them real-time during fights...and get paid bonuses based on how many players they killed. Would have been way more fun than scripted fights.

 

[guachi]

Some kind of permanent dispel magic would get rid of the Pass Without Trace or whatever spells invaders might use. Permanent, automatic defenses would be useful, too. Spells or effects that automatically trigger upon the BBEG taking damage. Things the BBEG can do as a reaction so in the opening round, even if surprised, he'd get to do something. For example, something like the Tomb of Levistus Warlock invocation. Though you could have it work more in favor of the BBEG by having it wear off at the beginning of the BBEG's turn and not being vulnerable to fire damage.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

Add 5 to his AC and double his HP.

Seriously. I was going to go on a nice little semi-rambling essay, but figured it all boiled down to this. Your PC's are hitting too often and doing a lot of damage...so make them hit less and their damage matter not quite so much.

Ok. ONE suggestion to try...and this will either work, or go down in flames...it's a gamble, to be sure. Ahem...

"Illusion".

Yes, I said it. From round one, make the BBEG be a full blown illusion. Make sure to play up the 'reaction' of the illusion taking damage, writing around, screaming, flailing about, etc. Give the Players no idea it's an illusion unless they jump straight to it (obviously!). At some point...probably after blowing their load, so to speak...the Players may think "WTF?! Ok...something isn't right here...". If they never come to "Maybe it's an illusion?", then, as Gary said in the 1e DMG..."Let the dice fall where they may!". You'll end up with a nice, happy TPK as the BBEG's minions slit the throats of all the sleeping PC's (who think they're dead from all the illusionary attacks). And if the Players figure it out, they would have 'wasted' so much of their fire power that the actual fight with the actual BBEG will be a LOT more tense!

No matter the outcome, the Players will forever go into future BBEG battles with trepidation and caution...as opposed to the video-game reaction of "Oh, music changed. BBEG time! Start your Nova's up boys!".

Well, either that or you Players will whine, bch and moan about you being "unfair" and "deliberately killing their PC's". In that case...the problem isn't with their characters, it's with your players.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Krachek]

A monster may have legendary action and lair action he is only as strong as its CR.
He may suited better to give some challenge to multiple opponents, but not that much.
The CR system is base on a succession of encounters. The party is not meant to be at full strength to make the bbeg fight.
If the party try to take a long rest before the final fight, you may choose to make the bbeg flee and reestablished elsewhere.