D&D 5E 5E's "Missed Opportunities?"

[Oofta]

All these arguments would be soooooooooooooooooooo much more honest if the person just said "I don't like it and am just making stuff up to oppose it".

On the other hand, it would show soooooooooooooooooooo much more humility if you would just admit that either most people don't care, or use a system that works well enough for them.

The prices of many, if not most, things we purchase today are not particularly "sane". Diamonds for example are expensive because of good advertising and artificially limited supply. The prices of various stocks are frequently dependent more on wishful thinking, fanciful projections and following the herd than actual logic.

I base my prices (for the limiited items for sale) based on rarity. Is it a crap way of doing it? Of course. Just like every other method. I'm just pragmatic enough to admit it, along with being realistic in acknowledging that we'll probably never get a price list from WOTC or 5E's version of the Castle Builder's guidelines.

 

[CapnZapp]

On the other hand, it would show soooooooooooooooooooo much more humility if you would just admit that either most people don't care, or use a system that works well enough for them.

Sure, and these people don't have to buy this book and especially don't have to post in every thread about that book. Done. Next?

The prices of many, if not most, things we purchase today are not particularly "sane". Diamonds for example are expensive because of good advertising and artificially limited supply. The prices of various stocks are frequently dependent more on wishful thinking, fanciful projections and following the herd than actual logic.

Absolutely. No disagreement here either.

On the other hand, we're not discussing Valentine's gifts - we're discussing tools for vanquishing kobolds and beholders.

I base my prices (for the limiited items for sale) based on rarity. Is it a crap way of doing it? Of course. Just like every other method. I'm just pragmatic enough to admit it, along with being realistic in acknowledging that we'll probably never get a price list from WOTC or 5E's version of the Castle Builder's guidelines.

Difference is, I'm not posting in threads about the Castle Builder's Handbook, coming up with reason after reason why it should not be published

 

[Ovinomancer]

Sure, and these people don't have to buy this book and especially don't have to post in every thread about that book. Done. Next?

Let's examine this. Such a book would have low utility to most, but high utility to you. What price should it be, then?

 

[Oofta]

Sure, and these people don't have to buy this book and especially don't have to post in every thread about that book. Done. Next?


Absolutely. No disagreement here either.

On the other hand, we're not discussing Valentine's gifts - we're discussing tools for vanquishing kobolds and beholders.


Difference is, I'm not posting in threads about the Castle Builder's Handbook, coming up with reason after reason why it should not be published

Well, the question is valuable for whom? How big is the demand vs supply? What's the real utility?

For example, if a town is being besieged by gargoyles, adamantine or magical weapons would be in great demand. But a +2 vs a +1? Most people (even guard types) probably wouldn't notice that much of a difference. For many, a flaming sword may appear to be more valuable than a +3 sword just like a mini-van is more valuable to a soccer mom than a Ferrarri. That doesn't make the mini-van more expensive. A decanter of endless water is worth more than it's weight in gold in a desert but little more than a novelty in many places.

Or take the "flying broom vs winged boots" dilemma. I rule for my game (maybe house rule if it matters) that you have to keep one hand on a broom at all times. You have to be "holding" it or you'll fall off because they are typical witch's brooms and don't have "stirrups". So boots of flying are far more practical than the broom for anyone that wants to use two handed weapons or carry a shield. That, and there are places where you can't just carry around a broom barring a bag of holding.

I'd love a book basically called "Stuff for Adventurers to Spend Money On". Maybe even throw in more mundane items like Aurora' Whole Earth Catalog did. So my wish list might be a bit broader than yours. Unfortunately I think WOTC sees more ROI on a MTG crossover that I will never use than a book for people that remember that Aurora ever had a catalog.

Maybe there should be another thread, with ranked voting "things I wish WOTC would publish".

 

[Parmandur]

Well, the question is valuable for whom? How big is the demand vs supply? What's the real utility?

For example, if a town is being besieged by gargoyles, adamantine or magical weapons would be in great demand. But a +2 vs a +1? Most people (even guard types) probably wouldn't notice that much of a difference. For many, a flaming sword may appear to be more valuable than a +3 sword just like a mini-van is more valuable to a soccer mom than a Ferrarri. That doesn't make the mini-van more expensive. A decanter of endless water is worth more than it's weight in gold in a desert but little more than a novelty in many places.

Or take the "flying broom vs winged boots" dilemma. I rule for my game (maybe house rule if it matters) that you have to keep one hand on a broom at all times. You have to be "holding" it or you'll fall off because they are typical witch's brooms and don't have "stirrups". So boots of flying are far more practical than the broom for anyone that wants to use two handed weapons or carry a shield. That, and there are places where you can't just carry around a broom barring a bag of holding.

I'd love a book basically called "Stuff for Adventurers to Spend Money On". Maybe even throw in more mundane items like Aurora' Whole Earth Catalog did. So my wish list might be a bit broader than yours. Unfortunately I think WOTC sees more ROI on a MTG crossover that I will never use than a book for people that remember that Aurora ever had a catalog.

Maybe there should be another thread, with ranked voting "things I wish WOTC would publish".

Chris Perkins discussed the Whole Realms Catalog on Lore You Should Know recently, and pointed out that literally everything in it is perfectly valid in 5E rules, and he encouraged people to buy it and use it with 5E games.

 

[Sadras]

Maybe there should be another thread, with ranked voting "things I wish WOTC would publish".

Better yet a survivor thread, less bickering.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Difference is, I'm not posting in threads about the Castle Builder's Handbook, coming up with reason after reason why it should not be published

Me either. I don't really care about castle building. I have no intention of castle building. That aspect of the game doesn't interest me.

But if there are optional rules for it, published by WotC, and other players want to spend THEIR time/gold/effort building castles, that's totally fine with me.

Magic item price lists are different. Their existence...their official existence...risks altering the flavor of the game. I don't want to show up at a table with my low-magic character and discover that everybody else is playing in 3.5e/4e land, decked out with best-in-slot magic items, because the DM bought the book.

 

[Sadras]

Magic item price lists are different. Their existence...their official existence...risks altering the flavor of the game. I don't want to show up at a table with my low-magic character and discover that everybody else is playing in 3.5e/4e land, decked out with best-in-slot magic items, because the DM bought the book.

Presumably your DM is smarter than to allow something like that?

 

[Guest 6801328]

Presumably your DM is smarter than to allow something like that?

I play with lots of different DMs, and also play AL.

I'm with CapnZapp (omg did I just say that?) on the new treasure system for AL, but one thing I like about AL is that if somebody shows up with a cool magic item at least I know (or hope...) that they "earned" it playing the same adventures that I do, and it's not just that they play with a Santa Claus DM. As somebody who likes low-magic-item games, it's really frustrating when you're trying to play that way and the guy next to you is constantly saying, "I pull my Apparatus of the Kwalish out of my Bag of Holding and..." etc. (Honestly even WotC adventures give out a little too much magic for my taste.)

I have a big, big, big problem with anything that suggests that magic items are common enough to actually have commoditized prices.

And for chrissake it's SO EASY to make up a price on the fly that works in your own campaign. The DM will know about how much money the players have, and can decide (or roll on the tables, if he really wants to), what items are available, and...most importantly...how badly he does or does not want more magic items in the game. THEN JUST MAKE UP A PRICE. Price it high if you want the player(s) to have to sacrifice or work toward it; price it low if you want them to have it.

The only thing a price list could accomplish in that scenario is to give the player grounds for arguing with the DM. "Oh, come on, that's 3 times the official price for a +1 sword!!!!"

God save me from that.

5e is a drastic change from 3e and 4e in this regard. And I'm glad for it. It's my turn.

 

[Lanefan]

I have a big, big, big problem with anything that suggests that magic items are common enough to actually have commoditized prices.

And for chrissake it's SO EASY to make up a price on the fly that works in your own campaign. The DM will know about how much money the players have, and can decide (or roll on the tables, if he really wants to), what items are available, and...most importantly...how badly he does or does not want more magic items in the game. THEN JUST MAKE UP A PRICE. Price it high if you want the player(s) to have to sacrifice or work toward it; price it low if you want them to have it.

For a one-off here-and-now situation you're quite right: just bang out a price and get on with it.

But it stops being a one-off situation the moment a party gets back from the field with some magic loot and wants an equitable way of dividing it such that everyone gets about an even-value share*. Now you need values for each item; relative for item-to-item comparison purposes and absolute for equalizing for someone who takes no items.

* - as in, you get the better item but less cash while I get the lower-grade item but more cash, and how much cash does Fred get if he doesn't claim any items at all?

The only thing a price list could accomplish in that scenario is to give the player grounds for arguing with the DM. "Oh, come on, that's 3 times the official price for a +1 sword!!!!"

God save me from that.

This assumes player-side access to the price list in your game...