D&D 5E Shield Mastery Feat

[Yardiff]

A 20th level fighter with the Shield Mastery feat must make all 4 attacks (perform the Attack Action) before getting the bonus action from the feat. Is this a correct statement?

 

[Oofta]

Lot's of ifs, or maybes in your post here.

Anyone can play the if game.

If the wizard goes before the bugbear, he disengages and the bugbear either fights the fighter, or eats an OA, or eats its action doing a disengage.

The point is that the goblin only gets a disadvantaged OA against the fighter if the prone works, or no OA against the fighter at all if shoved.

The goblin is prone, or shoved, or killed with the initial attack. If killed, the fighter can still go over and use the bonus action to knock prone the bugbear or shove it away from the wizard. If not killed, the fighter can still go over and help out without a high chance of him being damaged by the goblin in the process.

Pros and cons.


Your point is that Shield Mastery sucks if it doesn't give advantage on every attack of the PC and that's just not true. Is it better if the PC can use it on every attack where the foe fails the ability check? Sure. But that doesn't mean the feat sucks without that little extra uber. DPR Shield Mastery 50% of the time once per round at level 5 is generally on par with taking STR instead for +1/+1 (without taking into account the defensive parts of SM). DPR Shield mastery with your interpretation makes taking SM instead of STR for a sword and board almost a no brainer. It's just so much better. +5 to hit twice per round >50% of the time vs. +1/+1 100% of the time once one gets to level 5.


PS. The feat has two other abilities that it gives. It's not just about shoving. It's pretty nice against Fireball.

PSS. Even with my interpretation, players in my game take Shield Mastery when playing sword and board. The Fighter in our game has it. He's far from gimped with it.

If the goblin is dead on the fighter's turn then obviously it has no more actions. As far as the rest ... the wizard could have disengaged on their turn whether or not someone else is there. I don't see the point.

I have no idea what you mean by DPR Shield Mastery, but if you mean using your reaction to get half damage on a reflex save can be a nice feature*. You can't negate the damage of a fireball of course because it doesn't target an individual, there are very few attacks that only target one creature that also require a dexterity save. All assuming you haven't used your reaction for something else of course. I've found with my character I tend to use my reaction for other things. YMMV.

You find it useful, I and everyone I've discussed it with in person do not. Run it the way you want and have fun.

*EDIT: when a reflex save actually comes up that is. In most campaigns it's rare enough that you would have been better off taking toughness and getting extra HP for every combat instead of the one in a dozen you make a dexterity saving throw that will already be cut in half if you make your save.

 

[Oofta]

A 20th level fighter with the Shield Mastery feat must make all 4 attacks (perform the Attack Action) before getting the bonus action from the feat. Is this a correct statement?

According to Mr Crawford's flip-flop, yes. You cannot interrupt the attack action with a bonus action, the only thing that can interrupt the attack action is movement.

If you can just say "I'm taking the attack action but before I actual take an attack I'm going to use my bonus action to shove/knock prone" then whether or not you take your bonus action before the attack action is just semantics. Who cares.

 

[FrogReaver]

According to Mr Crawford's flip-flop, yes. You cannot interrupt the attack action with a bonus action, the only thing that can interrupt the attack action is movement.

If you can just say "I'm taking the attack action but before I actual take an attack I'm going to use my bonus action to shove/knock prone" then whether or not you take your bonus action before the attack action is just semantics. Who cares.

I think the attack action is a tangible in game thing and not simply an out of game player declaration. Though there is not any evidence of that one way or the other that I'm aware of.

 

[FrogReaver]

If the goblin is dead on the fighter's turn then obviously it has no more actions. As far as the rest ... the wizard could have disengaged on their turn whether or not someone else is there. I don't see the point.

I have no idea what you mean by DPR Shield Mastery, but if you mean using your reaction to get half damage on a reflex save can be a nice feature*. You can't negate the damage of a fireball of course because it doesn't target an individual, there are very few attacks that only target one creature that also require a dexterity save. All assuming you haven't used your reaction for something else of course. I've found with my character I tend to use my reaction for other things. YMMV.

You find it useful, I and everyone I've discussed it with in person do not. Run it the way you want and have fun.

*EDIT: when a reflex save actually comes up that is. In most campaigns it's rare enough that you would have been better off taking toughness and getting extra HP for every combat instead of the one in a dozen you make a dexterity saving throw that will already be cut in half if you make your save.

Small correction. The bonus to dex saves is for effects that target only you. The reaction for no damage on passing a reflex save works on abilities that target more than you.

 

[FrogReaver]

A 20th level fighter with the Shield Mastery feat must make all 4 attacks (perform the Attack Action) before getting the bonus action from the feat. Is this a correct statement?

Yep, that's the current ruling.

 

[KarinsDad]

I have no idea what you mean by DPR Shield Mastery

It means how much extra DPR one gets with Shield Mastery sword and board with your interpretation, with my interpretation, and comparing it to just bumping Str by 2.

Basically, your interpretation allows for an average of 1 advantaged attack per round against large or smaller foes at level 5.
Basically, my interpretation allows for an average of 1 advantaged attack per every other round against large or smaller foes at level 5.

I don't consider my interpretation to suck. It's just not as uber as yours and it doesn't make the feat worthless.

You find it useful, I and everyone I've discussed it with in person do not. Run it the way you want and have fun.

I will and you do too.

 

[KarinsDad]

Yep, that's the current ruling.

Odd. Since bonus actions can interrupt movement and other actions, it would seem that once the requirement of doing a single attack (and hence taking the attack action), that the rest of the attacks could go after the shove.

 

[FrogReaver]

Odd. Since bonus actions can interrupt movement and other actions, it would seem that once the requirement of doing a single attack (and hence taking the attack action), that the rest of the attacks could go after the shove.

I think it comes back to being about "take the attack action" being a requirement to even have a bonus action from shield master to be able to use. Thus, if you are still in the process of taking the attack action then the question of "did you take or have you taken the attack action would still not be true and thus you still wouldn't have a bonus action from shield master.

 

[KarinsDad]

I think it comes back to being about "take the attack action" being a requirement to even have a bonus action from shield master to be able to use. Thus, if you are still in the process of taking the attack action then the question of "did you take or have you taken the attack action would still not be true and thus you still wouldn't have a bonus action from shield master.

Except it is the same word for word requirement as Extra Attack:

"Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."

If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to ...

You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action’s timing is specified,


The timing of the bonus action isn't anymore specified than the extra attack is. If the criteria for taking the attack action is satisfied for the extra attack, it would seem that it is also satisfied for the bonus action.

Doing otherwise seems too nit picky to me.

If I can attack, move, and attack, it would seem that with the same wording for the two abilities, I could attack, move, bonus shove, move, and attack. The only criteria for the feat that I see is that the attack action must be taken first (but not necessarily completed first). An attack action can be interrupted by movement, interacting with an object, a bonus action, etc. But that attack action was still taken.