Ranged Options for All Classes

[doctorbadwolf]

In addition to the "Thrown Weapons are Ammunition" house rule, I might add extra range for thrown attacks for high Str. Maybe +5' effective and max range for every Str bonus?

So a 20 Str fighter can throw a hand axe 45' effective or 85' max. Javelins would be 55' and 145'.

It's simple and that way not everyone is using bows.

I like that.

I also let thrown weapons benefit from any feat, class feature, or other trait that is built for ammo weapons.

Throwers are cool, in fiction. They shouldn’t suck mechanically.

 

[5ekyu]

And I think you are underestimating the quantity of times one can throw a second javelin with extra attack if one thinks ahead.



This is a patently false claim. Warriors routinely take a -5 to attack with a variety of feats (like Great Weapon Master) and I have never once seen someone characterize that as "not going to hit anything". Disadvantage is a bummer, but it's far from doom to an attack and it's slightly better than a -5 to the attack (since -5 means your maximum roll is 15 while disadvantage means your maximum roll remains a 20). Particularly since most things which attack from that distance are themselves not armor specialists and tend to be casters or archers or other creatures with a relatively mediocre armor class.

I would suggest a recondiderstion of thec35-60' advantage for spellers

Let's imagine a fighter possibly with sharpshooter or just a barbarian with high str.
Let's imagine he is really tough.
Let's imagine he takes sharpshooter feat.
Now his darts and daggers csn throw out to 60' no penalty.
Now they can also do the -5 +10 thingy when they want.
And they ignore most cover.

 

[Mistwell]

I would suggest a recondiderstion of thec35-60' advantage for spellers

Let's imagine a fighter possibly with sharpshooter or just a barbarian with high str.
Let's imagine he is really tough.
Let's imagine he takes sharpshooter feat.
Now his darts and daggers csn throw out to 60' no penalty.
Now they can also do the -5 +10 thingy when they want.
And they ignore most cover.

Sure but now were facing -5, which is close to the same as disadvantage, and I am being told that's almost like not being able to hit anything at all.

Also I don't think those weapons are considered, "ranged weapon" to qualify for the feat.

 

[5ekyu]

Sure but now were facing -5, which is close to the same as disadvantage, and I am being told that's almost like not being able to hit anything at all.

Also I don't think those weapons are considered, "ranged weapon" to qualify for the feat.

Darts are daggers not. My bad on daggers.

 

[guachi]

It's entirely true, in my experience. Disadvantage is an invitation to take a different action, because more often than not, Disadvantage will turn a hit into a miss.

Mathematically this is only true if you had a less than 50% chance to hit normally. This is usually not the case in 5e where the average hit chance is somewhere around 60-65% for someone with a max attack stat for their level.

In other words, if you had a 40% chance of missing in the first place then disadvantage will turn 40% of hits into misses.

 

[Mistwell]

Darts are daggers not. My bad on daggers.

Darts are not ranged weapons either. Which I admit is weird, but that seems to be the case.

 

[5ekyu]

Darts are not ranged weapons either. Which I admit is weird, but that seems to be the case.

Darts are on the chart titled simple ranged weapons.
Daggers are simple melee weapons.

While a thrown melee weapon is not a ranged weapon, a dart is.

This is highlighted by the fact that a dart is not a monk weapon for martial arts because it is a ranged weapon and monk weapons includes simple melee weapons.

What is your cute for darts not bring ranged weapons?

I know I was wrong about the dagger but need to be shown how I am wrong about darts.

 

[Oofta]

I would suggest a recondiderstion of thec35-60' advantage for spellers

Let's imagine a fighter possibly with sharpshooter or just a barbarian with high str.
Let's imagine he is really tough.
Let's imagine he takes sharpshooter feat.
Now his darts and daggers csn throw out to 60' no penalty.
Now they can also do the -5 +10 thingy when they want.
And they ignore most cover.

So ... basically still worse than a dex based sharpshooter because they can only hit targets at one tenth the distance of their dex based counterparts*. Why is this bad? It's still worse than the dex based equivalent.

But this is a pointless argument. I don't have a problem with dex based players being good with bows. I have an issue with them having no penalty other than they can't take two-handed weapons. If they paid some significant penalty beyond the occasional locked door for that choice I'd be okay with it. Especially because the strength issue can be taken care of with an uncommon potion. A fighter that doesn't have access to fly? Good luck finding that very rare potion.

Oh, but I forget. PCs should always be running around holding two javelins so the first two rounds they can get two attacks. Then the wizard casts fly at a higher level (because of course there's a wizard and of course they have the spell prepared and of course they have the spell slots available). Or they should be perfectly happy using that bow for an average DPR of one or two points.

*Which is another problem I have with longbows. Yes, you can do a volley out that far in theory but accurate to a distance of two football fields without a penalty? Really? Even Hawkeye would be impressed by that.

 

[Mistwell]

Darts are on the chart titled simple ranged weapons.
Daggers are simple melee weapons.

While a thrown melee weapon is not a ranged weapon, a dart is.

This is highlighted by the fact that a dart is not a monk weapon for martial arts because it is a ranged weapon and monk weapons includes simple melee weapons.

What is your cute for darts not bring ranged weapons?

I know I was wrong about the dagger but need to be shown how I am wrong about darts.

I looked it up on DND Beyond and it listed it as thrown and finesse but not ranged. I didn't open my PHB at the time. But if it's listed under ranged, then I'd say you are right and it may be unique in being ranged and thrown. Unless DND Beyond is reflecting errata?

 

[LordEntrails]

It's entirely true, in my experience. Disadvantage is an invitation to take a different action, because more often than not, Disadvantage will turn a hit into a miss.

As Gauchi shows below, this is perception, not reality. Just because you think DIS means you will miss, hence you take another action, doesn't actually mean that you actually can't hit once you have DIS. Yes the odds decrease, but its not the end of the world.

Mathematically this is only true if you had a less than 50% chance to hit normally. This is usually not the case in 5e where the average hit chance is somewhere around 60-65% for someone with a max attack stat for their level.

In other words, if you had a 40% chance of missing in the first place then disadvantage will turn 40% of hits into misses.