D&D 5E Difference between being hidden and being unseen
It may be from many people misinterpreting the hiding mechanic. Some DM's would frequently deny advantage if a PC ducked behind a large barrel, for example, stating that the monster 'knew' they were there. This is not how the hiding mechanic was intended and 'unseen' is a more appropriate word for the mechanic as written. I wouldn't be surprised to see continued revisions along this line.
'Unseen' means that you have been blocked from a single sense-- sight. You cannot be seen by the target, whether that is because you are behind a solid piece of blocking terrain, behind heavily obscuring terrain (like darkness, heavy rainfall, thick underbrush), or are invisible.
Unless you are behind a solid object and there's no physical way for an attack to hit you (say you are around a corner or behind a wall)... you can normally still be attacked while you are unseen, because the target knows approximately where you are (even if they can't see you.) However, that attack is made with Disadvantage.
To be 'Hidden' means you have been masked from ALL the senses of the target. They cannot see you, they cannot hear you, they cannot smell you, they do not notice anything in the environment that indicates where you are. The way you accomplish this is by making a Dexterity (Stealth) check, and your result is compared to the Passive Perception of the target. If your check is higher than their PP, then they not only do not know where you are, they possibly do not even know you are there.
Theoretically they *can* still attack you... but they would do it by just selecting an area or a square where they guess you might be... and make an attack roll (with Disadvantage, because you are also Unseen.) Obviously if you aren't in that square they selected, the attack automatically misses. And if by some chance they just happen to select the correct square you are in... they probably will still miss you because they are rolling with Disadvantage, but there is a chance they could hit you. In addition, if they cast an area of effect spell and you just happened to be within the area the spell goes off in (and there is a "line of effect" between the target space of the spell and where you are), you can also be affected or take damage by the spell.
*****
The thing that often bothers people about these rules is that they do not like that being Unseen doesn't automatically also confer the Hidden status. Some folks think that if you are invisible for example, targets shouldn't know where you are at all. But technically, until you've used your action to try and Hide (by making a Dexterity (Stealth) check)... the game assumption is that even if you are invisible, you are still making noise or you are giving off an odor or the air or objects around you are moving noticeably to indicate your location. Many DMs who do not like that assumption will either let the invisible creature make a Dexterity (Stealth) check automatically as part of being invisible, or they will just say that the invisible creature cannot be noticed or found regardless (all depending on how a particular DM thinks invisibility should work in their game world.)
What you prefer to use is up to you.
Unless you are behind a solid object and there's no physical way for an attack to hit you (say you are around a corner or behind a wall)... you can normally still be attacked while you are unseen, because the target knows approximately where you are (even if they can't see you.) However, that attack is made with Disadvantage.
To be 'Hidden' means you have been masked from ALL the senses of the target. They cannot see you, they cannot hear you, they cannot smell you, they do not notice anything in the environment that indicates where you are. The way you accomplish this is by making a Dexterity (Stealth) check, and your result is compared to the Passive Perception of the target. If your check is higher than their PP, then they not only do not know where you are, they possibly do not even know you are there.
Theoretically they *can* still attack you... but they would do it by just selecting an area or a square where they guess you might be... and make an attack roll (with Disadvantage, because you are also Unseen.) Obviously if you aren't in that square they selected, the attack automatically misses. And if by some chance they just happen to select the correct square you are in... they probably will still miss you because they are rolling with Disadvantage, but there is a chance they could hit you. In addition, if they cast an area of effect spell and you just happened to be within the area the spell goes off in (and there is a "line of effect" between the target space of the spell and where you are), you can also be affected or take damage by the spell.
*****
The thing that often bothers people about these rules is that they do not like that being Unseen doesn't automatically also confer the Hidden status. Some folks think that if you are invisible for example, targets shouldn't know where you are at all. But technically, until you've used your action to try and Hide (by making a Dexterity (Stealth) check)... the game assumption is that even if you are invisible, you are still making noise or you are giving off an odor or the air or objects around you are moving noticeably to indicate your location. Many DMs who do not like that assumption will either let the invisible creature make a Dexterity (Stealth) check automatically as part of being invisible, or they will just say that the invisible creature cannot be noticed or found regardless (all depending on how a particular DM thinks invisibility should work in their game world.)
What you prefer to use is up to you.
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I believe it's the other way around-- being Unseen is what grants other creatures Disadvantage when they try and attack you. For you to gain Advantage on your attack, you have to be Hidden. And that occurs after making a Dexterity (Stealth) check and rolling higher than the perception of your target.
No. The phb clearly states that what grants you advantage on your attacks is being unseen.
Well, I guess technically both. If you are Invisible as per the condition, your attacks have Advantage, and attacks against you have Disadvantage. So we're both right.
(I forgot the second part of the Inivisble condition was that it granted attacks with Advantage as well.)
So I guess the real way to look at it is that there is no mechanical difference between being hidden and being unseen. The only difference is that hidden is just one of the methods by which you become unseen. If you are hidden, it means you took the Hide action and beat the Wisdom (Perception) of the person who was trying to notice you. And thus having done that, you are now unseen and gain Advantage on your attack rolls and attacks against you have Disadvantage.
But you can also become unseen in other ways, such as having Invisibility cast upon you. In that case, you are invisible (as per the condition) and also attack with Advantage and are attacked against with Disadvantage.
But you can also become unseen in other ways, such as having Invisibility cast upon you. In that case, you are invisible (as per the condition) and also attack with Advantage and are attacked against with Disadvantage.
And truth be told... the rules for all of this stuff is so spread out and vague enough, that it doesn't actually matter what words are used or mean... you're meant to just take everything written in all the different sections of the book (under Dexterity, under Actions in Combat, under vision, under cover, under the Conditions chart etc.) and just create a set of rules that work for you.
Is there any difference between being hidden or being unseen? Probably. Are either of those words used as actual Game Terms with strict definitions? No, not really. At the end of the day, are you going to end up making your own opinions about what those concepts mean mechanically (and which will probably be disputed and disagreed with by other people as we have been discussing and arguing about stealth and hiding here on the boards since the game was first released?) Absolutely.
You figure out what all these concepts mean for you and how you want to rule them in your game, and don't worry about trying to find a cogent, streamlined, and easily-definable Rules As Written system. Because there really isn't any.
Is there any difference between being hidden or being unseen? Probably. Are either of those words used as actual Game Terms with strict definitions? No, not really. At the end of the day, are you going to end up making your own opinions about what those concepts mean mechanically (and which will probably be disputed and disagreed with by other people as we have been discussing and arguing about stealth and hiding here on the boards since the game was first released?) Absolutely.
You figure out what all these concepts mean for you and how you want to rule them in your game, and don't worry about trying to find a cogent, streamlined, and easily-definable Rules As Written system. Because there really isn't any.
Rod Staffwand
aka Ermlaspur Flormbator
The mechanical benefit of being hidden is that an enemy has to guess your location. Instead of thinking of it as you being "hidden", think of it as your position being "hidden". If the enemy wasn't already aware of your presence, you can also consider it as your presence being hidden, such as sneaking past some guards.
I don't particularly like how the 5e stealth guidelines are structured. Most of the critical information is there, it's just not organized in an easy to digest manner. Putting the mechanics for "unseen" and "hidden" in different chapters rather than in its own section (like the vision and light rules, which are in yet a different chapter).
I don't particularly like how the 5e stealth guidelines are structured. Most of the critical information is there, it's just not organized in an easy to digest manner. Putting the mechanics for "unseen" and "hidden" in different chapters rather than in its own section (like the vision and light rules, which are in yet a different chapter).
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