D&D 3E/3.5 Think I Have Finally Figured Out How To Fix 3.5 (it took a decade)

[Yaarel]

Well you probably won't like earlier than 3.5 either or ye olde D&Disms.

I like prestige classes as a concept the execution was off but that can be fixed.

I have mixed feelings about ‘Þe Olde D&D’, both love and frustration.



Regarding prestige classes, I can probably live with the idea of classes that are really normal classes that only have levels 1 to 4, rather than 1 to 20. The rules for multiclassing work normally. A player who chooses a prestige class must necessarily multiclass when the prestige class levels run out.

If so, micro classes can be useful as a mechanic to offer certain class features that are useful but dont really merit 20 levels.

I have to think about it more carefully, but consider the 5e Druid. It is part spellcaster, part shapeshifter. Perhaps the shapeshifter might have worked better as a microclass that anyone can take. So a Druid, a Barbarian, a Bard, or anyone else who wants to wildshape could take a few classes in the shapeshifter prestige class. Likewise a ‘pet’ class. Anyone who wants any kind of ‘pet’ (familiar, animal companion, necromantic zombie, shaman spirit animal, or so on), would take the spirit companion class. It seems to me, healing is a very small skill set, that probably works best as a microclass, that anyone can take − whether Cleric, Wizard, Druid, Bard, Fighter, Paladin or so on, could take.

Dont forget, the overall character level would determine the proficiency bonus, so the features of a microclass can continue to improve even after the character stopped taking levels in the microclass. Likewise, compare cantrips that come with a built-in leveling improvement.

Many options that are bigger than feats but smaller than a 20-level class, might work best as a microclass.

But the point of these ‘prestige’ microclasses is actually to make the game *simpler*. Instead of many classes acquiring convoluted archetype options that step on the toes of other classes, these shared features would instead be a separate microclass that any class can take if they want it.

In the end, these microclasses can only work if they are truly balanced in the same way that normal classes are balanced.

 

[Yaarel]

Cantrips are over rated. You are better off throwing darts in AD&D in terms of damage.

If I want cantrips etc I can just play 5E yes? I want gritty on occasion and some ye olde D&Disms.

For me the appeal of cantrips is flavor.

If I am playing a magical character, I want my character to do magical things. F darts!

 

[Zardnaar]

For me the appeal of cantrips is flavor.

If I am playing a magical character, I want my character to do magical things. F darts!

3.5 had cantrips they just dealt less damage.

3.5 critters often had less hit points though. I would probably slightly buff the 3.x cantrips. My damage spells would scale but things like hold person can function like 5E and be uppcast. They would not be as good anyway due to scaling saves.

I wouldnt use arcetypes, prestige classes would fill similar role I suppose and with micro feats you would build your own.

 

[Yaarel]

I like the way the official 5e healing works now.

The only option that I would like to see is enduring injuries. (Something logically elegant, not a random role from a table.) I am not really into grit and gore, but I appreciate realism.

When a person reaches zero hit points, there becomes the possibility of the loss of life ... or limb.

It would be nice if the injury system and the exhaustion system, could some how use the same mechanics. Currently the exhaustion system almost works well to represent a broken arm, for example, but there are still incongruities.

 

[Zardnaar]

I like the way the official 5e healing works now.

The only option that I would like to see is enduring injuries. (Something logically elegant, not a random role from a table.) I am not really into grit and gore, but I appreciate realism.

When a person reaches zero hit points, there becomes the possibility of the loss of life ... or limb.

It would be nice if the injury system and the exhaustion system, could some how use the same mechanics. Currently the exhaustion system almost works well to represent a broken arm, for example, but there are still incongruities.

In 5E each time you are reduced to 0 hp gain a level of exhaustion would be interesting.

Also one of the other threads quoted a survey 2 or 3 encounters a long rest is how people are apparently playing not 6 to 8.

My encounters would be 3 or 4. IIRC 3E assumed 4. I would also bring back energy drain but it would inflict levels of exhaustion not level loss.

 

[Yaarel]

3.5 had cantrips they just dealt less damage.

3.5 critters often had less hit points though. I would probably slightly buff the 3.x cantrips. My damage spells would scale but things like hold person can function like 5E and be uppcast. They would not be as good anyway due to scaling saves.

I wouldnt use arcetypes, prestige classes would fill similar role I suppose and with micro feats you would build your own.

The part about 4e-5e cantrips that matters to me is the always-on at-will magic. It makes it clear that the character is magical. Not the bat dung.



I agree that (well thought out and balanced) prestige classes can work instead of 5e archetypes.



Give me an example, of ‘microfeats’ that you have in mind.

When I was thinking about customizing 5e D&D races, it became clear to me, that each official race was worth a certain number of feats.

If I remember correctly, all of the racial traits of a Wood Elf is worth seven feats total.

A +2 ability score improvement is worth a whole feat.
A +1 ability score improvement is worth half a feat.
A major trait (like Darkvision, Speed +5) is worth a feat.
Four minor traits (like a skill proficiency, weapon proficiency, extra language, elf-trance, resistance to sleep, etcetera) are equal to one feat.

When it comes to races, I strongly support the options of swapping out a major trait for a different major trait, like swapping out Darkvision for a significant magical ability. Likewise, I am fine with swapping out a minor trait, like a racial weapon proficiency for a different minor trait like elf-trance.

So maybe I agree with you. I havent measured classes this way, in units of feats. But in principle I am fine with swapping out features.

To drop something you dont like to gain something you do like is fine by me. The new feature wont be more powerful, but it can be more flavorful and meaningful.

 

[Horwath]

For me the appeal of cantrips is flavor.

If I am playing a magical character, I want my character to do magical things. F darts!

Reserve feats became the "at-will" cantrips of 3.5e

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

TBH, I’m not seeing much in this thread I’d consider a “fix”, just “different.” Nothing wrong with different, but it still remains taste-dependent.

Then again, 3.5Ed is my favorite version of D&D, sooooo...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Reserve feats became the "at-will" cantrips of 3.5e

I was hoping for more Reserve Feats when 3.5Ed ended.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

When it comes to races, I strongly support the options of swapping out a major trait for a different major trait, like swapping out Darkvision for a significant magical ability. Likewise, I am fine with swapping out a minor trait, like a racial weapon proficiency for a different minor trait like elf-trance.

When I allowed more powerful races to be played as characters, I ditched the system 3.5Ed had in place and simply used “Racial Class Levels”. They were full levels, just like classes, and progression got you the racial abilities the critters were noted for. That meant, for example, you could play a Minotaur from 1st level, but it might take you a while to accumulate tall the classic abilities- if you ever did.