D&D 5E To boxed text or not to boxed text

Rhenny

Adventurer
I'm a fan of boxed text, but I'd even have pre-written adventures go further with the boxed text. Too many times, what's in the box is not enough. As most adventures are written now, the DM has to highlight a lot of information that isn't in the text boxes to be able to introduce more information as needed or to even know how the incident/encounter will develop.

I'd like to see text boxes in stages.

For example, the first text box would be immediate sensory description.

A second text box could be for deeper investigation and/or for as the PCs spend more time in the area.

This 2 or 3 stage structure would make it easier for the DM to make each encounter/area become more dynamic.

Yes, I know;I'm lazy. I would love for pre-written adventures to make it easier to run if I don't want to spend more time prepping.
 

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pemerton

Legend
Any old sod can be creative and I'd argue that most of us here are probably particularly skilled at at. But we (well, we might) don't have editors and publishers and playtesters to ensure that what we are creating is particularly refined. We might have the raw information and a general idea of how we want to present it, but until we actually go out and do that we don't have a nice and refined approach.

This, frankly, is the only reason I assume that people actually buy modules, adventures and settings, because not only do they provide interesting information, but they also provide cohesive thematic elements that bring all of these bits of information together in a very particularly appealing way.
I can only speak for myself. I use adventures because they have situations that I wouldn't have thought of myself. For instance, I wouldn't have though of The Crimson Bull scenario, which <spoiler alert> involves a bull that has turned crimson because an evil spirit has been trapped in it, and which has a cord made of hair tied around it which must remain in the grip of a righteous person at all times if the spirit is not to escape.

Others can judge how creative I am; but that's not something I would come up with on my own.

The other things that I like from modules, settings etc is maps, names and/or stats.

I like the presentation to be useful, in the sense that the copy-editing is sound, the maps clear, and the prose readable. But I'm not looking at the module to be impressed by its presentation or flair (and I find a lot of RPG material, especially from WotC, to be over-written). I want stuff that I can use.

Er, no. These things are quite frankly, not atmosphere. Those are all things you are doing in response to the situation you find yourself in, which is not atmosphere. Not even close. I'm actually a little befuddled how you can even argue that. The atmosphere is the "pervading tone or mood", in this case, of the room. Your decisions are a reaction to the atmosphere of the room.
The furniture unsettles you, so you uncover it. The mirror weirds you out, so you smash it. The open window is both a means of escape and saftey, but also a venue for attack and danger.

Your choices there are reactions to the atmosphere I established. Yes, you would have reactions to those objects without the atmosphere injection, but would those reactions be ones of fear? Which is the guiding theme of Curse of Strahd (and its predecessors).
When I play a RPG I am not going to experience fear because of the referee's narration. That's a response appropriate to a book or film, perhaps, but not a RPG.

In a RPG, my emotional responses are generated by the context for, and consequences of, the actions I declare for my character. I'll give an example to explain what I mean. In the first session of BW that I played as a player (rather than GM), my PC and his companion were investigating an abandoned farmstead. As we were doing this, orcs attacked. What generated my emotional response to the orcs was not the GM's narration of them: it was the fact that I knew - given my knowledge of the game mechanics and the character's stats - that my companion was in danger from the orcs, and that it might be hard for me to both protect here and make sure the orcs didn't get to my horse, which was tethered to a post outside the farm house. Or to put it another way, it was my knowledge of the possibilities implicit in the circumstances of play that generated an emotional response.

This is why I pointed to those same possibilities in my comment on the Strahd room.

This is also why, upthread, I said that in my view an emphasis on the quality of narration tends to shift the focus of RPGing from its strongest aspect (ie engaging the players in the fiction by pushing them to make decisions in circumstances pregnant with possibility) to its weakest aspect (ie hoping that the authorship of a D&D module writer and the oratory of a GM will provide a narrative experience comparable to a quality book or film).
 

Hussar

Legend
I'm going to disagree with you Pemerton. Having spent a lot of time reading stories to children, I can do the voice thing and tell a pretty good story as a performance. OTOH, my writing is largely garbage. I know my limitations. I really am not terribly good at it. That's what paying a decent writer is for. And, frankly, having played with more than a few DM's who have decent experience in story telling, as in the vocal art, I can honestly say that evoking emotions is part and parcel of a performance.

Relying on the players to evoke emotional responses, is, IMO, an exercise in frustration. They're far, far more likely to go with a dick joke than dive deep into trying to evoke feelings.
 

I

Immortal Sun

Guest
I can only speak for myself. I use adventures because they have situations that I wouldn't have thought of myself. For instance, I wouldn't have though of The Crimson Bull scenario, which <spoiler alert> involves a bull that has turned crimson because an evil spirit has been trapped in it, and which has a cord made of hair tied around it which must remain in the grip of a righteous person at all times if the spirit is not to escape.
I guess this Prince Valiant example just doesn't strike me as very creative since it's pretty typical Judeo-Christian mythologizing.

I like the presentation to be useful, in the sense that the copy-editing is sound, the maps clear, and the prose readable. But I'm not looking at the module to be impressed by its presentation or flair (and I find a lot of RPG material, especially from WotC, to be over-written). I want stuff that I can use.
As I said in my initial post, I've got the internet for that. But as I got at in my first post, box-text and bullet-points aren't mutually exclusive concepts. It's just one nerd who likes math and one nerd who likes poetry arguing that their textbook should only include math or prose. When the reality is that both can be included with little effort.

When I play a RPG I am not going to experience fear because of the referee's narration. That's a response appropriate to a book or film, perhaps, but not a RPG.
WAT, this comment makes zero sense. In fact it makes negative sense.

In a RPG, my emotional responses are generated by the context for, and consequences of, the actions I declare for my character. I'll give an example to explain what I mean. In the first session of BW that I played as a player (rather than GM), my PC and his companion were investigating an abandoned farmstead. As we were doing this, orcs attacked. What generated my emotional response to the orcs was not the GM's narration of them: it was the fact that I knew - given my knowledge of the game mechanics and the character's stats - that my companion was in danger from the orcs, and that it might be hard for me to both protect here and make sure the orcs didn't get to my horse, which was tethered to a post outside the farm house. Or to put it another way, it was my knowledge of the possibilities implicit in the circumstances of play that generated an emotional response.
I don't know how you managed to figure out how to emote backwards, but somehow you did. I'm not interested in arguing with you, you emote however you want man. I will say that this sounds like the kind of thing someone would write on the internet to argue a point while not actually acting that way in reality.

This is also why, upthread, I said that in my view an emphasis on the quality of narration tends to shift the focus of RPGing from its strongest aspect (ie engaging the players in the fiction by pushing them to make decisions in circumstances pregnant with possibility) to its weakest aspect (ie hoping that the authorship of a D&D module writer and the oratory of a GM will provide a narrative experience comparable to a quality book or film).
Again, you're sort of promoting this weird "I don't emote in response to situations, I emote after situations" or something, honestly it's terribly confusing and I have no idea how you're doing that.
 


Satyrn

First Post
I have to admit- that was my thought as well.

Not all games are the same, and not all DMs do things the same way, but I don't think I've ever seen a person argue that the DM's narration is never, ever supposed to evoke any emotion or reaction from the players.

I mean, okay? Definitely not a game I'd like to play. I mean, why even bother with entire genres of TTRPGs (you know, CoC, VtM, WoD, Dread, or even bother with any Ravenloft in D&D?).

Or even just a run of the mill D&D dungeon crawl . . .

*Scribbles down a note to place a haunted house that's still mysteriously standing smack in the middle of a collapsed residential zone in the ruins of Moria*
 

I

Immortal Sun

Guest
I have to admit- that was my thought as well.

Not all games are the same, and not all DMs do things the same way, but I don't think I've ever seen a person argue that the DM's narration is never, ever supposed to evoke any emotion or reaction from the players.

I mean, okay? Definitely not a game I'd like to play. I mean, why even bother with entire genres of TTRPGs (you know, CoC, VtM, WoD, Dread, or even bother with any Ravenloft in D&D?).

I mean, it fits in a weird way with the rest of his argument if he's got one of those really weird ultra-analytical minds that just doesn't emote much. If I assume that about him it fits with the preference for bullet-point information and the demand for situations he can analyze and respond to rationally, vs situations he reacts to emotionally.

Personally I agree that really misses a large chunk of what RPGing is all about. You're supposed to pretend to be that guy, in that spooky room, responding not to the analytical facts of the situation, but to the feeling in your gut and the tickle on the back of your neck. I'm not saying the player should be afraid, but the player should at least understand that this room may make their character afraid.

*Scribbles down a note to place a haunted house that's still mysteriously standing smack in the middle of a collapsed residential zone in the ruins of Moria*
This was, coincidentally, exactly what I was pulling from. I ran an "outdoor" dungeon crawl for low-level characters, using tight woods and cliffs and valleys as the "walls", only for them to come across this one large open area where a town had been which only had, you guessed it, the haunted house left standing. It was quite fun, though the only actual dangerous element was, you guessed it, the mirror, which trapped viewers in a pocket dimension copy of the house, feeding on them until they died and the spirits were able to pass back and forth between "dimensions" but not leave the house.

Honestly if you just ran up and smashed the mirror, you'd defeat the whole thing. Nobody did tho.
 
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Satyrn

First Post
This was, coincidentally, exactly what I was pulling from. I ran an "outdoor" dungeon crawl for low-level characters, using tight woods and cliffs and valleys as the "walls", only for them to come across this one large open area where a town had been which only had, you guessed it, the haunted house left standing. It was quite fun, though the only actual dangerous element was, you guessed it, the mirror, which trapped viewers in a pocket dimension copy of the house, feeding on them until they died and the spirits were able to pass back and forth between "dimensions" but not leave the house.

Honestly if you just ran up and smashed the mirror, you'd defeat the whole thing. Nobody did tho.
Awesome. My game full of stuff referencing other stuff.

This can be the bit that references your game. Not that anyone at my table will get a reference to [MENTION=6981174]Immortal Sun[/MENTION] . . . but then I got blank stares when I referenced Bridge on the River Kwai, too. So, yeah.
 

I

Immortal Sun

Guest
Awesome. My game full of stuff referencing other stuff.

This can be the bit that references your game. Not that anyone at my table will get a reference to [MENTION=6981174]Immortal Sun[/MENTION] . . . but then I got blank stares when I referenced Bridge on the River Kwai, too. So, yeah.
Ooof. Man, that's like a classic right here.
 

Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
Awesome. My game full of stuff referencing other stuff.

This can be the bit that references your game. Not that anyone at my table will get a reference to [MENTION=6981174]Immortal Sun[/MENTION] . . . but then I got blank stares when I referenced Bridge on the River Kwai, too. So, yeah.

Did you whistle the tune?
 

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