Rolling dice is not the primary resolution mechanic of the game, in my view. The primary resolution mechanic is using a human brain to imagine a fictional scenario and determine the likely outcome of the action within that scenario. If, and only if the outcome can not be determined by this method alone, then rolling dice is a tool to help make that determination.
I'm glad you spelled this out, because it was the first thing I thought when I read [MENTION=6801228]Chaosmancer[/MENTION]'s remark about the game's resolution method - ie that you would not agree.
we aren't talking about goal and approach. We are talking about whether or not giving players information on the consequences of their actions leads to better and more dramatic roleplaying. That has nothing to do with how the players approach the problem and all about how much we tell them.
As a semi-participant in this particualr discusion with [MENTION=6779196]Charlaquin[/MENTION], I will say that what you describe here doesn't ring true to me at all, for my game.
I'm not talking about
tellling players coonsequences which would obtain even if the players weren't told. I'm talking about
telling the players those consdequences that obtain, or - alternatively - having those consequences be implict in the framing of the situation and the plyaer's knowledge of why the situation matters.
I don't think that keeping potential consequences secret from the players makes for good RPGing.
You are standing in on the second floor of a mansion, guards are charging up the stairs and you need to escape. You see a window and a chandelier, across from which is a ledge leading somewhere else, in addition to the stairs leading down. What do you do?
<snip>
the player can't spend 10 minutes checking the stability of the chandelier. It is a viable option, but a failed check might lead to it breaking, and the player doesn't know it could break.
The devil is always in the details, of course - but at the level of generality that you have presented this example, the risk of the chandelier breaking would seem to be very much implict in the framing of the situation.
your decision to try and disable a magic circle humming with energy is not invalidated if when you fail I decide to teleport the entire party to the Far North instead of having it all unleash in a massive fireball like you expected.
I don't agree with this at all. If it wasn't implicit in the situation that such a thing might happen, I would regard this as very bad GMing. I once had a thing a bit like this happen in a game - the GM teleported the party 100 years into the future. The effect was to largely invaldiate all our play to date, which was enmeshed in a particular time and place. (I think the GM did it because he felt he had lost control of the campaign, and wanted to reestablish that control.)
I quite the game a session or two after that, and I heard that it ended not long after.
If details are important, add them. Add in an extra level of interaction. But if it makes sense for the story for there to be a somewhat difficult to climb run-of-the-mill wall I may include it. Unless it's important I get past it with as little muss and fuss as possible.
To me, this would seem a good reason not to call for a check at all, because nothing is at stake.. Just narrate the climbing of the unremarable wall and keep moving until something more significant comes up.
So, just to be clear, y’all would allow a player to roll (and potentially fail) to perform a task that you didn’t initially plan to require a roll to succeed on, simply because they announced that they were making a check? That’s actually how you would all rule in that situation?
For my part, it would depend. If the DC is zero/automatic (as per [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION]'s comments upthread), no. But if what's going on is a mismatch between GM and player expectations as to whether something is at stake, it might be time for a re-calibration in our understanding of the situation.
Either way, I couldn't imagine it playing out like [MENTION=6801328]Elfcrusher[/MENTION]'s example.