D&D 1E Fireball throughout the ages

[Zardnaar]

The hp bloat is exactly why damage spells should've scaled with caster's levels. Having a cap is understandable but yet...

Yeah the cap is important. They were to good in 1E and B/X. 5E fireball is more like a 4d6 of 5d6 one in older editions.

 

[Helldritch]

Yep, a 20hd fireball was something to fear and rightly so. It had no place then. With the HP bloat, it should be back. Well... a cap at 10d6 would be fine as casting the fireball at higher enhance the damage. It could mean a 16d6 Fire ball with a 9th level spell. (a waste of a ninth level slot, but having the possibility would be nice).

I understand the cap is there for balance purpose, but the current cap is way too low. Anyways, the game is fine as is so far.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yep, a 20hd fireball was something to fear and rightly so. It had no place then. With the HP bloat, it should be back. Well... a cap at 10d6 would be fine as casting the fireball at higher enhance the damage. It could mean a 16d6 Fire ball with a 9th level spell. (a waste of a ninth level slot, but having the possibility would be nice).

I understand the cap is there for balance purpose, but the current cap is way too low. Anyways, the game is fine as is so far.

I think they need to scale or gain +2d6 when you upcast.

 

[Helldritch]

2d6 on higher level cast might have been the way to go with 3rd and higher level spells. I should've thought of this my self...

 

[fearsomepirate]

25 ft + 5 ft/2 levels = 60 ft at 14th level.

"many spells"

AD&D 2e:
Shatter: 30 yd + 10 yd/level
Magic Missile: 60 yd + 10 yd/level
Fireball: 10 yd + 10 yd/level

10 yd/level adds up fast. 1e swapped yards for ft indoors IIRC. But indoors, range hardly ever mattered.

I'd also include ranged weapons in that ranged silliness

Medieval ranged weapons frequently had an effective range of 200 to 300 yd.

 

[tetrasodium]

25 ft + 5 ft/2 levels = 60 ft at 14th level.


AD&D 2e:
Shatter: 30 yd + 10 yd/level
Magic Missile: 60 yd + 10 yd/level
Fireball: 10 yd + 10 yd/level

10 yd/level adds up fast. 1e swapped yards for ft indoors IIRC. But indoors, range hardly ever mattered.



Medieval ranged weapons frequently had an effective range of 200 to 300 yd.

realism has no place in a game If that's your strongest point there is nothing to discuss.

Despite my initial poorly worded gripe not making the problem clear, I made my point about why the massively extended effective range of characters(squishies especially) was problematic & specifically mentioned outdoors in it. On a battlemat it isn't too big of a deal simply because they are rarely large enough for those long ranges, but with modern digital tools capable of handling those ranges it winds up feeling like reaper drones vrs the roman legion

edit: also there's some pretty significant & relevant stuff I mentioned about the dangers of the old fireballs & bump to pc ranges in general that you cut from the post you quoted.

 

[FrogReaver]

changing the range of so many spells to what was effectively "can I see the target clearly or hear them talk very loudly" was terrible design choice in 5e

Did you see the 3e range he listed?

 

[Helldritch]

For your range problem on battlemaps.

We made gridded veneer wood cover for the player's table. It is 4'x10'. Each square is standard 1'' x 1''. We've put on it a plastic cover for table and it works quite fine. On extreme ranged combat, we declared that each square is 25 feet. We made a smaller gridded veneer of about 1' 6'' x 2' 6'' that is on my DM's table (yes I have two tables to play. It takes up a lot of space but I have the spare room for that). This smaller gridded veneer serves as a "zoom in" for squares in which there are characters/monsters. It works wonders.

 

[FrogReaver]

realism has no place in a game If that's your strongest point there is nothing to discuss.

I think historical weapon ranges is a good starting point for an RPG. They don't have to be perfect IMO, but they should be in the ballpark.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think historical weapon ranges is a good starting point for an RPG. They don't have to be perfect IMO, but they should be in the ballpark.

No it is not because there are exactly zero historical weapons with effective ranges against armor crafted using magical means worn by individuals with magical or supranatural abilities